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Time to fish or cut bait with Chad Ochocinco

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  1. PatsFans.com Article

    PatsFans.com Article Rookie

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    Time to fish or cut bait with Chad Ochocinco
    By: John Morgan

    The mantra of the Ochocinco apologists has been that his lack of production was due to no OTAs in 2011, but nine months after the lockout ended he's still not lining up in the right place. How much time do the Pats give him to get on track?...

  2. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

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    Great, if depressing, article.

    Over/under on week when the first 'Is this going to be Ochocinco's breakout week?' thread is opened? Week 1.
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't agree. The article seems nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to Ochocinco lining up offsides during one OTA play.

    I have never been a big fan of Ochocinco, and never saw him as a fit for the Pats. I hated the trade when the Pats made it, though many on this board were euphoric at the time. I wasn't at all surprised to see him struggle last year, given the precedence of Tory Holt and Joey Galloway. And paying him $6M was absolutely ludicrous.

    But for Chrissakes, give the guy a chance. Either he'll make the team or he won't. The odds are that he won't, but give him a legitimate chance through training camp, just like everyone else. This "fish or cut bait" stuff based on one second hand OTA report is ridiculous.
  4. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    well...I think he still can be useful...look, if he can't fish at least a few catches a game then maybe he'd be good making those "Wrecksie" baits cut out of blocks of cheddar and whittled down to toes....
  5. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Thank God John Morgan is not making decisions for the Pats. But did provide an invaluable service for those of us who follow this board.....ANOTHER thread about the WR's :rolleyes:
  6. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's a rumor that Brady threw an incompletion during that same OTA. It must be time to cut his ass, too.
    Last edited: May 26, 2012
  7. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    I think it's just that people are tired of him.
  8. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    The tough part about accumulating depth in the NFL is that if your third and fourth WR's were good enough to be starters elsewhere, chances are that they would be playing elsewhere. It's natural for players of starter-quality to want to start.

    Chad offers a very interesting situation. We have all seen that talent that he has. It would be great to have a guy with his talent as the 5th receiver ESPECIALLY since he is okay with it.

    Of course, he has struggled to pick up the offense. I sure hope he gets it because it would offer some great depth to the organization. I don't know why there are so many that are rooting for him to fail.
  9. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Players screw up and run laps in OTAs and training camp. It happens. Using that as an excuse to write the article was lame, to be kind.
  10. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

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    In the eyes of many people Chad has already failed. He has to...unfail.

    Remember the movie Texas Across The River? Remember the Indian chief's son? As hard as he would try, he could never do anything right. Every time he messed up, like light the chief's headdress on fire, there would be a camera shot of two braves on horseback that were looking askance at each other, shaking their heads and looking up at the sky in disbelief. That's Chad and there has to be players on the bench doing the same thing the braves were when he messes up.

    I know this was only the first OTA, but there certainly wasn't any complexity to the plays being called. It's just basic stuff to get a feel for playing again. Chad blew two of them. It's baffling. Just once I'd like to hear that he caught everything thrown his way, but the plays couldn't even get started. Maybe he'll catch on and get it. I just hope if my appendix goes bad, my doctor doesn't need a year to figure out where it is.
  11. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    LOL at

    Emphasis mine.
  12. Raymond

    Raymond Rookie

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    I really don't think it's that at all. I see it as, people simply lost patience in rooting for him to succeed.
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Then stop paying attention to him and let him either win a job or get cut in training camp. Instead, the people who are "tired of him" keep creating threads and writing articles talking about him.

    Again, I have never been a big Ochocinco fan. But the guy came in last year and made major changes to his normal high publicity style and tried to fit in with the low-key team approach. By all accounts he worked very hard, and Brady in particular lauded him for his work effort. He restructured his contract in the off-season. He has kept his mouth shut about the team and not had a single bad thing to say. In my book, that earns him a chance to prove that he can learn the system and get in sync with Brady. If he doesn't, BB won't give him a free rid again and he can be relegated to the Joey Galloway scrap heap, and all the bashers can be satisfied.
  14. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've got to give this one to Brdmaverick. Haters gonna hate, and a lot of people are taking great pleasure in bashing "Ochostinko". Some of them had ridiculously high expectations for what he would do coming into a brand new system that was very different than what he was used to:

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...expectations-chad-ochocinco-haynesworth.html

    "Realistic expectations" my *ss. People over-hyped Ochocinco, then over-bashed him when he didn't meet their expectations. That's SOP for this board.

    I give Ocho credit for embracing a challenge and not resting on his laurels. The guy went to 6 Pro Bowls, had 7 1,000 yard seasons and put up almost 11,000 yards receiving before he came to the Pats. He embraced coming to a team where he knew it was the team first over individuals and where he knew he would be the #4 option at best. He embraced coming to a team with a complex offensive system which has stymied other very successful veteran WRs and which was in some ways antithetical to the style which had made him successful. And he shut up and never complained. He never got frustrated, never whined in public about not being more involved in the offense. As far as I can tell, he was always upbeat and positive, and took great satisfaction in the team accomplishments. That doesn't earn him a roster spot, but in my book it earns him enough respect to not merit scorn or derision just because he had a difficult time adjusting. And if the Pats didn't cut him last year - they cut Joey Galloway pretty damn quick - maybe it was because they saw enough potential and work ethic to believe that he might be able to eventually figure it out.

    What if Wes Welker hadn't been franchise tagged and had signed with another team in the offseason, and his numbers had gone down dramatically in a new offense which didn't focus on the slot receiver? Would that earn him scorn and derision from those fans? Would that diminish his accomplishments with the Pats over the past 5 years?

    Frezo, the doctor taking out your appendix is doing the exact same thing he has done hundreds or thousands of times before. He's not coming into a new environment with new tools and rules and trying to figure them out while he operates on the fly.

    Give the guy a break. The odds are very much against him making the team right now. But they're against Anthony Gonzalez, Jeremy Ebert, Donte Stallworth and a bunch of other guys, too. That's what competition is about. Let him compete, and if he earns a job then it will be because he's going to bring something positive to the team.
  15. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    Chad's big opportunity to make the roster was last year when we were short of viable WR's able to run intermediate to deep routes.

    This year we have Brandon Lloyd and Gaffney who are likely to leapfrog him.

    I don't see how we can really carry a WR who likely to be no.5 on the depth chart who has no ST value - especially with an offense that heavily features 2 TE sets.
  16. Sivy

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    2012 WR

    welker
    Lloyd
    Gafney
    Branch
    Ocho


    Edleman
    slater
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's why I said Ocho has an uphill battle to win a roster spot this year. Realistically, unless the Pats keep 7 WRs he'll probably have to outplay someone, most likely either Gaffney or Branch. If he does, then that's another thing altogether.
  18. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    Its going to be a real apples and oranges comparison between Ocho and Branch.

    Brady obviously has a built in comfort zone with Branch - but I am wondering how redundant his actual tangible skills are with the addition of Gaffney (i've got Gaffney as a roster lock) and the skill set/routes that Hernandez can run.

    There is an argument to be made (I think Reiss made it recently) that Branch had a good start to 2011 but eventually burned out due to lack of WR depth - that shouldn't be such an issue with year.

    I appreciate what Ocho has tried in New England, but it just hasn't happened for him - i'd personally rather have the reliable Branch at No.4.
  19. Triumph

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    Its the "Attention Whoring" like Starbucks, Twitter, letter to Goodell and all the other nonsense this guy likes to create unrelated to football. I kept hoping last season that he would emerge and do something special.
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Morgan basically nailed it with this piece.

    Does a decision need to be made right this minute? No, because **** happens in the run up to preseason and even on the eve of a season. But reps and roster spots are also valuable. Bill just added an OLineman to the mix because he had guys doubling up at Center and Guard throughout this week's OTA's per Reiss. And the team is currently maxed out at 90 roster players.

    And while his concern about the example being set is generally valid, I don't think it impacts here because I don't think the team or the unit will be effected either way whether Chad makes the roster or is cut loose. He's not a force on the field, just a presence off it and as long as his act remains benign, lunch room clown and twitter antics that cause them to chuckle...perhaps he's doing enough to keep things light, something Bill for all his seriousness also appreciates as an antidote to the grind.

    Talent and effort will only take you so far. Around here capacity is the key. That is what Chad seems to lack. The ability to chew gum and walk. Maybe because the focus on antics already saps his ability to otherwise multi-task. Maybe he just lacks solid instincts (see Merriweather, Brandon). Chad is a smart guy. He can read defenses. He can memorize routes and even adjustments. He seemingly can't adjust on the fly and process myriad information on the field seemlessly under pressure. Not all smart guys can (see Watson, Ben). But it might also be he could, only it would be at the expense of focusing significant energy on his outside interests. And he just can't entirely push those aside (or compartmentalize them when the bell rings). He was quiet about them by his own standards last season, but it wasn't like he lost sight of his off field interests.

    Galloway among others was done in a flash for a couple of reasons that don't apply to Chad. He didn't think he had to adapt and essentially thought his talent or rep trumped system. He wouldn't even try to act as if it didn't... Moss stuck for a time because his talents and instincts were spot on and even if he didn't fit the mold versatility wise his freakish ability to dominate was worth adapting to. Until it didn't work anymore because his focus began to unravel. People howled when anyone said he should be gone after 2009. But it turned out Bill was just waiting for confirmation that the focus wasn't going to return and his plan to move on could be executed. Needed to see if the TE's would emerge and if Branch was going to shake loose at a reasonable price.

    Same deal with Ocho. Different circumstances but in the end same deal. No point cutting him last season because there was nothing better than equal to replace him with and it was already on the roster. If Lloyd is the fit he and Josh and most folks anticipate, and Gaffney (huge bonus in coming available essentially for free) and Branch and Edleman are healthy, there is lots to replace Chad with in 2012 and then Stallworth and Gonzo and Ocho are possibly competing for one final WR slot. Or maybe there isn't one. Or maybe it goes to the rookie if he shows anything in camp, stranger things have happened.

    They are going to be dealing with a numbers crunch on both sides of the ball from now until the cuts begin...and end. Which for Bill can be a couple of weeks into the season depending on lots of factors. You really have to make the 51 (or even the 45) here or you could land on waivers early and often out of the gate. And part of that equation is keeping guys you are comfortable would pass through so you can remain flexible.
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  21. Triumph

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    If this "Nocho learn playbook Cinco" stuff continues, I think that BB will cut him loose sooner in TC than later, so he can land on another team and get to work on their play book.

    I mean, the Pats TC begins on July 27th 2012 NFL Training Camp Schedule / Dates a few more weeks of intense study until the 53 cut down is not going to suddenly help Cinco get it IMO.
  22. basement zombie

    basement zombie Rookie

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    Good post above, Mo.
    I did a triple take here, wondering what I was missing - I think you meant to say Gaffney, correct? :)
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  23. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused:

    2 more OTAs plus a minicamp plus. 2 full months (May 27-July 27) to apply things wouldn't help? Plus a full month+ of training camp and preseason games?
  24. Snake Eyes

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    1 - It's a player who has a history of 'not getting it', so it's not an isolated event but rather a continuation of a process.

    2 - It's a relatively slow part of the offseason, writers need to write about something, even if it doesn't deserve to be written about.
  25. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I call BS on that post. With the exception of a couple of knuckleheads who predicted or called for Welker to be traded before the season...and a few more who totally dismissed Branch...and one or two who miscalculated on the QB...those were likely the same expectations as the team that signed him to essentially the same deal they gave Lloyd this season (3 years $12M only they had the good sense to split his $6M bonus into two installments via option). Don't try and tell me this FO didn't expect him to at least approach a thousand yards and 60 catches (that's 3-5 receptions per game) and a half dozen TD's. Each was brought in here in the hopes they could top a guy who produced 700-800+ yards and 50-60+ receptions and 5-6 TD's in back to back seasons...on a restructured deal that cost less than...$3M per to (along with the drafted TE's) when he was brought in to offset the loss of a guy who routinely produced a over 1200 yards and 80 receptions and twice as many TD's. On a team where Welker had been routinely putting up thousand plus yard seasons for little more.

    Ocho thoroughly underperformed even the most conservative of estimates. Don't try and write off his performance by chalking it up to unrealistic fan expectations... Had he produced twice as much his season would have been a crashing disappointment based simply on the investment this FO made in him in cap, cash and picks.
  26. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Eh...yup! Thanks for catching it.
  27. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) To repeat:

    Players screw up and run laps in OTAs and training camp. It happens. Using that as an excuse to write the article was lame, to be kind.

    The assertion that this is the continuation of a process is an asinine one. Players end up taking laps in the offseason work all the time, even multi-year veterans who've no longer got any type of comprehension issues.

    2.) This wasn't an article for a newspaper running a tight deadline. It was something done for Patsfans.com. The author could have come up with any number of other topics, or he could just have written an opinion piece about Johnson without using the non-crutch of the OTA. It was a crap article.
  28. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A full TC and pre season and 17 weeks of practice (what was Bill up to mentioning, 112 or so practices under their collective belts) and 16 active games didn't up til now so...

    He doesn't have a full 2 months to apply things. He has a has 7 of more days of OTA's and 3 days of veteran mini camp before everyone including coaching staff goes on an extended vacation prior to training camp opening. In the meantime time Chad's well publicized plans include continued filming for a six week program chronicaling the madcap run up to his anticipated July wedding. So tic tok...the clock is running.
  29. Ice_Ice_Brady

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    Torry Holt was injured.
  30. Snake Eyes

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    Ocho has and apparently still does have a comprehension issue, it's on him to show otherwise.

    You think it's a crap article, it seems to be generating a lot of hits, if so is it really crap? Also, why don't you write a better article, we could always use better material to read.
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