Time for the Offense to Shine

[VJCPatriot]

I do feel that if Chad Jackson doesn't see more snaps against Buffalo then he has been, that it is more an attitude problem rather then a problem adjusting to the offense because the bye should give him plenty of time to study up.

Sorry but this comment seems rather baseless. What the hell does a hamstring injury have to do with his attitude? If he is healed he should be able to play if he doesn't he won't. The extra time off should give him the time he needs to heal hopefully. But who knows. I'm not the Pats team physician and injury info is kept as secret as the the colonels recipe for fried chiken.

I'd love for this Pat's offense to get on track. Sure. But I wouldn't expect perfection, it's not realistic. But they should have made some adjustments at least.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Well they have had a week off to "fine tune" things. Get the timing down. Work out the "hamstring pulls" and sign future Hall of Famer Jabar Gaffney to the squad.

I say it's time for a breakout game for Brady and Company. We need to start getting this offense on track. Hopefully the new receivers now realize they must break off their routes when there is a blitz coming.

We need a good tune up game prior to the showdown with Indy.

I know nothing specific here but I feel it's about time to stop the excuses and get it done.

Denver

I would point out that they already have had the offensive bustout. Scoring 38 against a SB contender would constitute an offensive show in anyone's book, IMHO.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Duh... It has...

After all the sound and fury signifying just about nothing; I would point out that the prersent offense "without any major league receivers"' and an "idiot as as an OC" is scoring at a rate superior to the 2001 Super bowl winner. It is scoringat a rate equal to the 2003 Super Bowl winner; and with the easy part of its schedule still coming up, it can approach the scoring rate of the the 2004 Super bowl team.:rocker:

Meanwhile the derided defense is giving up points at a rate superior to ANY of The Pats Super bowl clubs.:rocker:

 

[mgcolby]

Sorry but this comment seems rather baseless. What the hell does a hamstring injury have to do with his attitude? If he is healed he should be able to play if he doesn't he won't. The extra time off should give him the time he needs to heal hopefully. But who knows. I'm not the Pats team physician and injury info is kept as secret as the the colonels recipe for fried chiken.

I'd love for this Pat's offense to get on track. Sure. But I wouldn't expect perfection, it's not realistic. But they should have made some adjustments at least.

I would have agreed with your first statement, but the injury report came out and Jackson isn't on it. I (we) wouldn't know the true reason if he doesn't get on the field a lot this week, so I don't think we can assume anything. It could be the gameplan, his knowledge of the offense or his attitude. I wouldn't rule anything out but I wouldn't assume anything either.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Duh... It has...

After all the sound and fury signifying just about nothing; I would point out that the prersent offense "without any major league receivers"' and an "idiot as as an OC" is scoring at a rate superior to the 2001 Super bowl winner. It is scoringat a rate equal to the 2003 Super Bowl winner; and with the easy part of its schedule still coming up, it can approach the scoring rate of the the 2004 Super bowl team.:rocker:

Meanwhile the derided defense is giving up points at a rate superior to ANY of The Pats Super bowl clubs.:rocker:

The thing that would make the 03 team more impressive is the fact that they beat seven 10+ win teams during the regular season. Based on this season's schedule it would lessen that a bit, but it doesn't make what they are doing irrelevent and it should make every Pats fan happy.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Unfortunately, although the widespread sentiment here seems to be that the only thing the Patriots passing attack needs is "time", one can't "learn" speed and route running skills if they are non-existent.

That's why creative playcalling is going to be a major factor to keep Defenses off balance.

The first 5 games have been a feeling out process for other defenses testing us - given what we've shown - or rather haven't shown, I'd fully expect Defenses to collapse, eliminate any respect for a long game they may have had in the early part of the season, work to shut down the running game, and challenge Brady to beat them with his arm.

Any other season we'd happilly accept that challenge, but given the personnel Brady has to work with - and the proven "success" of the worst completion percentage in the NFL - that's exactly what I'd do if I were a DC for another team.

 

[PatsSteve1]

I agree. All the pieces should be in place. There can be no excuse for poor play calling, or poor execution.

* There's also the possibility that some of the players aren't that good. The other team's D doesn't just stand there either. Even the high scoring Bears O didn't get a TD against the Cards. The Pats O is scoring less than a point less than the 2003 SB team. The idea isn't to score a lot of points. It's to win the game.

 

[mgcolby]

Unfortunately, although the widespread sentiment here seems to be that the only thing the Patriots passing attack needs is "time", one can't "learn" speed and route running skills if they are non-existent.

That's why creative playcalling is going to be a major factor to keep Defenses off balance.

The first 5 games have been a feeling out process for other defenses testing us - given what we've shown - or rather haven't shown, I'd fully expect Defenses to collapse, eliminate any respect for a long game they may have had in the early part of the season, work to shut down the running game, and challenge Brady to beat them with his arm.

Any other season we'd happilly accept that challenge, but given the personnel Brady has to work with - and the proven "success" of the worst completion percentage in the NFL - that's exactly what I'd do if I were a DC for another team.

Your points are valid and as usual you state your case clearly. The only thing I don't get is why you feel we don't have speed. Gabriel has been behind coverage a few times and Brady over or under threw him. Jackson is fast, I think not sure about Gaffney. As a whole they may not be burners but I don't think we had that last year either. Dwight was fast and so was Davis and we saw the same thing, deep incompletions. The only guy that got behind coverage and caught deep balls consistently was Branch and I attribute that to two things: Branch is good and he was on the same page with Brady.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Your points are valid and as usual you state your case clearly. The only thing I don't get is why you feel we don't have speed. Gabriel has been behind coverage a few times and Brady over or under threw him. Jackson is fast, I think not sure about Gaffney. As a whole they may not be burners but I don't think we had that last year either. Dwight was fast and so was Davis and we saw the same thing, deep incompletions. The only guy that got behind coverage and caught deep balls consistently was Branch and I attribute that to two things: Branch is good and he was on the same page with Brady.

I'm really not all that down on Gabriel - of all the players I think he will show major improvement over time. He's not the fastest player, but he's not slow either - was running a 4.54 40 yrd dash coming out of college.

The past knock on Gabriel has been that he's not a great route runner - and that's something that the Patriots - specifically with Branch - liked to do - i.e. run a deep route. So unless there's vertical separation - and thus far there hasn't been that much - at least not deep with him - he's not going to do more than keep a CB occupied, leaving the SS and FS to collapse.

(Some of those "underthrows" by the way looked very much to me like Gabriel may have turned the wrong way or otherwise miscommunicated with Brady)

Jackson is indeed a burner - but as I said before, while I advocated for drafting Jackson, it was with the thought that he'd need a year to develop like nearly every rookie does. And that was before he injured his hamstring - so expecting him to tear up the stopwatch like he did in the combine - and still be a credible threat to actually CATCH the ball, isn't something we should count on.... maybe he can contribute in the playoffs, but a guy who thrives on speed with an injured hamstring is not a good combination.

Gaffney's not a bad signing but doesn't do anything to address the deep threat - he averages less than a TE in average receptions - he's a possession WR and if he plays like he is capable, its like having another Troy Brown on the field.

So while its not like we've signed a bunch of replacement players, we don't currently have a credible deep threat - Watson and Thomas are the best deep options we have - but at 250lbs one has to question their breakaway ability and endurance - but of course even using them deep would fall under "creative playcalling" and the vast majority of fans seem to think that McDaniels playcalling is just fine the way it is.

 

[mgcolby]

I'm really not all that down on Gabriel - of all the players I think he will show major improvement over time. He's not the fastest player, but he's not slow either - was running a 4.54 40 yrd dash coming out of college.

The past knock on Gabriel has been that he's not a great route runner - and that's something that the Patriots - specifically with Branch - liked to do - i.e. run a deep route. So unless there's vertical separation - and thus far there hasn't been that much - at least not deep with him - he's not going to do more than keep a CB occupied, leaving the SS and FS to collapse.

(Some of those "underthrows" by the way looked very much to me like Gabriel may have turned the wrong way or otherwise miscommunicated with Brady)

Jackson is indeed a burner - but as I said before, while I advocated for drafting Jackson, it was with the thought that he'd need a year to develop like nearly every rookie does. And that was before he injured his hamstring - so expecting him to tear up the stopwatch like he did in the combine - and still be a credible threat to actually CATCH the ball, isn't something we should count on.... maybe he can contribute in the playoffs, but a guy who thrives on speed with an injured hamstring is not a good combination.

Gaffney's not a bad signing but doesn't do anything to address the deep threat - he averages less than a TE in average receptions - he's a possession WR and if he plays like he is capable, its like having another Troy Brown on the field.

So while its not like we've signed a bunch of replacement players, we don't currently have a credible deep threat - Watson and Thomas are the best deep options we have - but at 250lbs one has to question their breakaway ability and endurance - but of course even using them deep would fall under "creative playcalling" and the vast majority of fans seem to think that McDaniels playcalling is just fine the way it is.

Can't argue with any of that and as you should know we were in aggreement about the WR situation in the offseason. I actually see improvement each week and see that the Pats aren't sleeping on the position and it leads me to believe that it will continue to get better.

I don't know if you saw my post in the other thread, it listed our WR stats from 03 and 04. This group of WR's can beat that, can they come up with the big catch in the key moments...we'll have to wait and see.

I don't feel much either way on McDaniels because IMO Brady is determining what play he will run of the 2 or 3 called into his helmet. I may be looking to much into that but I believe Brady has a huge say in how this offense is run and what plays are executed during the game. Brady hinted to that in an interview he had during the offseason on Sirius.

 

[pats-blue]

There is no way our O gets on track. Our QB can't even throw an out pattern because of his fragile make up he is emotionally scared from an interception LAST YEAR...so says a claimed "expert" who knows more than all of us and the Pats coaching staff. We are DOOOOMMED we need to trade for a QB forget the receivers....one that doesn't get rattled by interceptions....isn't Drew available? They never bothered him....Tommy is to fragile, I mean come on, still dwelling over a play last year? No way our O gets on track without the QB getting his mental state back....

 

[Deus Irae]

Unfortunately, although the widespread sentiment here seems to be that the only thing the Patriots passing attack needs is "time", one can't "learn" speed and route running skills if they are non-existent.

That's why creative playcalling is going to be a major factor to keep Defenses off balance.

The first 5 games have been a feeling out process for other defenses testing us - given what we've shown - or rather haven't shown, I'd fully expect Defenses to collapse, eliminate any respect for a long game they may have had in the early part of the season, work to shut down the running game, and challenge Brady to beat them with his arm.

Any other season we'd happilly accept that challenge, but given the personnel Brady has to work with - and the proven "success" of the worst completion percentage in the NFL - that's exactly what I'd do if I were a DC for another team.

I Googled some info:

Deion Branch ran a 4.47 at the combine. Givens ran a 4.56. Chad Jackson? 4.32. Caldwell ran under 4.5, Gabriel ran 4.5.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I Googled some info:

Deion Branch ran a 4.47 at the combine. Givens ran a 4.56. Chad Jackson? 4.32. Caldwell ran under 4.5, Gabriel ran 4.5.

And Tony Simmons ran a 4.3. Did he ever stretch defenses?

Speed, route running and good hands are the equation needed.

Jackson I think has all three when fully healthy - except he's not. Of course experience is a factor for rookies too - so don't count on him, but know anything he gives you is a huge bonus.

Like I said, Gabriel's not the fastest but I think he has good hands, and hopefully the route running will improve.

Caldwell - we'll let's just not go there. If he has 30 passes caught this year he'll have met my expectation.