Welcome to PatsFans.com

Time for the Offense to Shine

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by denverpatsfan, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. denverpatsfan

    denverpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well they have had a week off to "fine tune" things. Get the timing down. Work out the "hamstring pulls" and sign future Hall of Famer Jabar Gaffney to the squad.

    I say it's time for a breakout game for Brady and Company. We need to start getting this offense on track. Hopefully the new receivers now realize they must break off their routes when there is a blitz coming.

    We need a good tune up game prior to the showdown with Indy.

    I know nothing specific here but I feel it's about time to stop the excuses and get it done.
  2. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,305
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0


    No excuse? Here you go again. Yeah, I'm sure the Bills defense is just going to lay over and let us do whatever we want. You're really annoying, dude.

    EDIT: Besides the opposing defense and defensive scheme, which you always gloss over.. The situation of 80% turnover at the WR position is still a reality. It will probably be better this week than it has been, but to expect perfection at this stage is simply stupid. It's the sixth game.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,521
    Likes Received:
    173
    Ratings:
    +403 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    It's going to be a season long process. Do I expect improvement ? Absolutely. But I don't expect a switch to have been turned on and to become a scoring maching this week and every week. We should look for the timing and communication to get better, in small amounts, weeks. 11 of those incremental improvements should have the offense in pretty good shape by the playoffs.
  4. TeamPats

    TeamPats Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I do feel that if Chad Jackson doesn't see more snaps against Buffalo then he has been, that it is more an attitude problem rather then a problem adjusting to the offense because the bye should give him plenty of time to study up.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  5. LasVegasPatsFan

    LasVegasPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Lets look on the bright side. We are 4-1 and leading our division. All we need to do is make it to the playoffs as anything can happen. Look at what the Steelers did last year. We turned our team around last year as well but feel short against Denver (mistakes took that game). I still have faith.
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,521
    Likes Received:
    173
    Ratings:
    +403 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    Live in your little fantasy world if you like but the offense's growth will be a year long process. There will be steps forward and back but the trend should certainly be up.
  7. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,870
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +58 / 2 / -0

    No excuses for the veterans - no excuses for the play calling.

    But I've ALWAYS felt that it is unfair and unreasonable to place expectations and pressure on a Rookie WR.

    Anything he gives you in Year 1 should be looked upon as a bonus - and I think with that sort of expectation we will be pleased by what Jackson can do by the end of the season - going into the playoffs.

    UNFORTUNATELY Jackson is the only one on the team that seems to have any real speed - when healthy - and the status of his hamstring remains questionable.

    So where does that leave us? Gaffney is a short yardage, possession receiver. Caldwell has a history of drops and doesn't run good patterns, Gabriel is tall and I think has good hands but don't feel he has separation speed that defenses respect. Troy Brown can't be looked upon as a speedy deep threat, and is another 3rd down, possession WR.

    So who or how do we stretch the field? Don't count on Jackson given his hamstring and rookie status.

    IMO we are going to have to ask our TEs to do something they are not well suited to do - go fast, go long and stretch the field - on a consistent basis (that's the real trick).

    Specifically Watson and Thomas have shown the ability to do that - its just a question of HOW OFTEN a 250 lb guy can get 20 yards down the field play after play to keep a defense honest.

    Watson hasn't been used like that - likely out of the concern I mentioned above, and the fact that he's very valuable as a typical TE receiver. But Watson's been double teamed consistently too since all teams know he's the preferred receiver, and that no one else on the team requires double coverage.

    Still, if McDaniels sends Watson longer, more often, he'll take his double team with him. This of course is what many here assumed would happen in the pre-season when we looked thin at WR even before losing Branch - and while its not an ideal option, as we'd likely give up some of Watsons' existing production, and it also remains to be seen if Watson can handle the demands - its really the only option we have to stretch the field.

    I also mentioned Thomas, and am a bit surprised he's not been looked to more, but he very clearly does have the ability to get deeper than a typical TE. Between he and Watson my hope would be that they could keep defenses more honest for the remainder of the season.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  8. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,305
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0


    Excuses? You keep using that word. You only need an excuse if something is done not up to standard. We're 4-1.

    You have your own opinions about the offense, but neither the Patriots nor the rest of us fans has to answer to your opinions.

    My view and your view differ, if you choose to put rediculous expectations on this offense in the face of their adversity then fine, blow your smoke.

    But just realize, the Patriots offense does not answer to you or your silly little internet messageboard expectations. And neither do the rest of us posters who happen to disagree with you.

    We're 4-1, who has to make any excuses?? Shoudn't the Dolphins or Bills or Jets be worrying about making excuses?

    Your thought processes are sad, old man!
  9. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,870
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +58 / 2 / -0

    Yeah NEM - not another word out of you until you can show that the offense isn't performing well... like, hypothetically, if Brady and his receiving corps had the worst completion rate in the NFL.
  10. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,305
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Hey, the passing offense hasn't been working well consistently. We all know that. We all know that we had 80% turnover at the WR position too. That's a REASON for the low completion percentage, not an EXCUSE.

    I see so many people bashing the passing game, but no one is actually looking at WHY it should be better.

    Why should it be any better than it is? I think it's far overperformed what I expected, but some of you are disappointed and even angry, so tell me WHY it should be doing better.

    We lost our #1 WR, Our #2 WR, our #4 WR, our #5 WR and our #6 WR.

    We kept only our #3 WR from last season in Troy Brown. He's now playing #1 in our offense.

    We signed a bargain bin guy in Caldwell who had never even been considered a solid starter, much less a marquee player.

    We traded a 5th round pick for another bargain player that has potential but has never capitalized on it in Gabriel.

    We drafted a ROOKIE WR in the second round in Chad Jackson.

    And in the bye week we signed another castoff at a bargain price in Gaffney.

    We signed ZERO marquee players. We retained zero marquee players. And we drafted one possible marquee player, but then we all know not to expect much from Rookie WRs.

    On top of that you factor in that both Gabriel and Jackson had less than 3 weeks of TC time combined, and that Gaffney was not here for even the first 5 games, much less TC. Factor in further the fact that both Gabriel and Jackson missed time due to injuries and Jackson at least has yet to play at 100% all season long and then tell me:

    Why should we expect more than what has occured?

    I expected less. Reality suggested that less was likely. Yet the offense has moved the ball and scored points. The 8-3 TD/INT ratio is one of the better ratios in the league.

    I think the disappointment, and subsequent call for RESULTS or EXCUSES, is stemmed from an unrealistic view of the situation, and an unrealistic expectation of the WR position.

    We lost long-time WRs that knew what was going on, replaced them with bargain bin signings and now the passing game is struggling yet still having enough success to win.

    Many teams would implode. The Pats have not. We're 4-1.

    If Brandon Stokely was the only WR left for Peyton, and they replaced Marvin and Wayne by promoting Stokely to #1 and signing budget players to fill out the roster along with a 2nd round rookie would Manning still be lighting up the league?

    Manning has nearly identical stats to Brady's THIS SEASON while he still HAS Marvin and Wayne.

    Please, someone tell me WHY it should be better than it is, I cannot for the life of me figure out how it should be.
  11. denverpatsfan

    denverpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Maybe Week 6 is still a bit early to expect perfection, but I do expect to notice SOME difference after the extra week of practice with the receivers. I will be looking closely at blitz situations especially.

    Depsite the offensive woes this year, they have closed out several games by taking a knee. How many times did the defense have to hang on for dear life in the SB years. I think that is a big improvement so far this season.
  12. NYCPatsFan

    NYCPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,406
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    No Jersey Selected


    Excellent! This is a fantastic analysis. Hopefully this brings the readers a better perspective on the Pats performance and boost their admiration and support for the team. Go PATS!

    PS: That said, let me admit that I am worried that Brady might be hurt. I am not basing that on any report; just my hunch after viewing/comparing his previous season throws with the current one's. Hopefully I am proved wrong. :confused:
  13. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,870
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +58 / 2 / -0

    Ohhh! Sorry - I didn't understand the distinction between finding reasons why the offense has performed poorly and excuses as to why the offense has perfomed poorly!

    :rofl:

    In any event, you're preaching to the choir about the lack of personnel - even though a great many people seem to think this is the "most talented group of WRs Brady has ever had" as one thread asserted, it's not, but I do think one could get more out of them.

    I outlined some ways in which I think the playcalling has been deficient and might be changed to help provide a more legitimate deep threat, stretching the field and making other players more productive, but your point about the Colts is a good one.

    They DO have the personnel there - and we don't.

    Has anyone here questioned whether the Colts are as good as their record says they are?

    You bet they have. And they'd be right.

    Has anyone here questioned whether the Patriots are as good as their record says they are?

    You bet they have - and any such comments are clearly not welcome.

    So we can stick our head in the sand down the hashmarks and make believe that all these players will just improve, or we can take a longer, harder look at, from our observations, areas where the team playcalling and use of personnel could be adjusted.

    I agree with the hope of this thread title - time for the offense to shine - but time alone is not going to address our deficiencies. Players are going to have to play beyond themeselves, and playcalling is going to have to get more creative, lest the defenses completely catch on to what they've seen of us in the first 5 games and make it even more difficult for us.

    If nothing changes I'd expect that Defenses will stop worrying about the Air game at all and will key on stopping the running game, knowing that the pass is no real threat - that's NOT what we want to see happen.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  14. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,305
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    The term 'excuse' implies that the result should be better than it has been. My point all along has been that it already HAS been better than the reality of the situation suggests it should be, yet people still complain. There's a 'reason' that the Pats offense isn't as good as it was over the past five seasons. That 'reason' needs no 'excuses' because the production is not bad enough to question the status of the passing game in the light of the situation that it's endured. IMO.


    I think this group has more potential than just about any Brady's worked with, but the limited training and practice that the group recieved through TC lends itself to mistakes in the unfamiliarity between the QB and WRs. It'll get better the further along we go, I think.

    I just think it's hard to evaluate playcalling without knowing WHY things are being done the way they are. It's easy to speculate and suggest that something should be happening when it's not, but the staff knows why they're not calling it, and it's not for their health. I believe fully that when the offensive playcalling isn't doing certain things that it's for a very good reason. They're playing safe and trying like hell to avoid turnovers. It's worked pretty well, I think.

    I think that this comparison by you is exactly why I think questioning the Pats is silly. The Colts have UNDERPERFORMED in the passing game. How have we underperformed? We've, if anything, overperformed. If the Colts are underperforming for their standard with their full compliment of wideouts, and we've performed very close to identically with a 80% turnover at the WR position, then HOW is it fair to question the Patriots? They're not in th same boat, but they've gotten nearly the same exact results! That's a GOOD mark on the Patriots, not proof of a bad mark. Maybe I just see it differently than most, I dunno.

    I just think it's common sense that when you stick an entirely new group (well, 80% new) together that it'll take time for them to jell. I'm not sure how thinking that way is sticking anyones head in the sand. I think it's just obvious.

    I think that not every defense is going to stop the run like Miami or Denver did. I think each game will come with it's own gameplan that'll call for different things. I think that this coaching staff knows about how many points they'll need in a given game. I think they also know the best way to get to that number. I think that the difference between the Miami gameplan/outcome and the Bengal gameplan/outcome shows that. And it also shows that we can execute both ways and still win games.
  15. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,254
    Likes Received:
    85
    Ratings:
    +166 / 2 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Here is a News flash that you can put on NEM News.

    The Patriots are playing another PROFESSIONAL football team who just lost a game that they felt that they should have won. They have a PROFESSIONAL coaching staff. They will be playing in front of their home fans on their home field.

    All I want is to have a "W" by 4:15 on Sunday afternoon. The rest of you guys can whine about and opine about how we won,if you want to. I'm going to be happy with a WIN because in the NFL there is no such thing as an ugly win. :eek:
  16. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Messages:
    5,606
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    :ditto:

    This team will only get better. Just like last year when so many were flipping out and all of the "season is over" threads and what did most of us tell them? Relax, once Sey comes back, Bruschi gets acclamated, we figure out who is going to play ILB and once we find an answer at Safety this defense will turn it around. What happened again? I don't find it illogical to think that this offense will continue to improve and should be a force to reckon with come January.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  17. Grizzafted

    Grizzafted Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    999
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    You guys need to relax. This is a bunch of grown men talking about a sports team on the internet, here. Take it for what it is.
  18. hwc

    hwc On the Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    104
    Ratings:
    +210 / 4 / -2

    Chad Jackson is a rookie who missed ALL of training camp. It's not just a matter of "studying up". He's got to adjust to the entire pro game on the fly.

    If he makes a contribution to this team as a role player this year, he's doing pretty darn well.
  19. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    9,596
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +89 / 2 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    You're in the wrong place with that attitude.
  20. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    9,596
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +89 / 2 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    I agree with that. I think we'd all like to see week-to-week improvement, with the understanding that the other team will dictate certain things.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>