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Time for Patriots Nation to ease up on the overreactions to Brandon Lloyd


Lloyd the last 6 games has looked like an over the hill Branch.It makes me wonder if he is playing hurt and not letting anyone know about it.
 
Lloyd the last 6 games has looked like an over the hill Branch.It makes me wonder if he is playing hurt and not letting anyone know about it.
"Knee, Questionable" isn't exactly hiding anything
 
Lloyd the last 6 games has looked like an over the hill Branch.It makes me wonder if he is playing hurt and not letting anyone know about it.

He has been on the injury report - maybe there is something to that. He is still better/more productive than Branch. He will become more of a possession guy and YAC will be a bonus.
 
If thats the case then sit him.Let him healed up.
 
Brady is 35 years young and he is losing his deep accuracy. Brady never was a particularly great deep thrower anyway, and has mde his money on very accurate short and intermediate throws, while thinking and reading the opponents while finding the weakness in the Defense.:D

He is seldom on the money to receivers when they are deep. Thankfully, he is usually long with his throws so there is little problem with INTs. If his target can't get it no one else can either, but there are also few deep receptions too.:cool:
 
There was an overreaction?

I must have missed it.
 
Brady is 35 years young and he is losing his deep accuracy. Brady never was a particularly great deep thrower anyway, and has mde his money on very accurate short and intermediate throws, while thinking and reading the opponents while finding the weakness in the Defense.:D

He is seldom on the money to receivers when they are deep. Thankfully, he is usually long with his throws so there is little problem with INTs. If his target can't get it no one else can either, but there are also few deep receptions too.:cool:

Here we go again...:bricks:
 
could be hurt..or could be all those missed plays in the jets game..who knows
 
Just a few things:

  1. Many, though of course not all, of us looked at Llllllllllllllllllllllloyd as a player who would help by threatening middle-deep, but mostly by threatening outside the lines in the mid-range as opposed to making lots of deep catches.
  2. There has clearly been a change in the way that Llllllllllllllloyd is being used. The Jets game was the turning point. Whether that's because of injury, or because of the several Brady passes that Lllllloyd should have gotten but didn't, is something that this team isn't about to share with the public.
  3. The Patriots have, through their choice of constant CIA information lockdown, created a situation where the media and fans glom on to the tiniest bit of information and analyze it as if it's the next Rosetta stone. As a result, so-called "overreaction" is guaranteed to happen, pretty much on a daily basis.
  4. Assuming Stallworth gets on the field, it will be interesting to see whether the Patriots put Stallworth into Branch's old role, or whether they slide him into Lllllllllllloyd's role and have Llllllllllllllllllllllllloyd take the Branch/Edelman role.
 
Just a few things:

  1. Many, though of course not all, of us looked at Llllllllllllllllllllllloyd as a player who would help by threatening middle-deep, but mostly by threatening outside the lines in the mid-range as opposed to making lots of deep catches.
  2. There has clearly been a change in the way that Llllllllllllllloyd is being used. The Jets game was the turning point. Whether that's because of injury, or because of the several Brady passes that Lllllloyd should have gotten but didn't, is something that this team isn't about to share with the public.
  3. The Patriots have, through their choice of constant CIA information lockdown, created a situation where the media and fans glom on to the tiniest bit of information and analyze it as if it's the next Rosetta stone. As a result, so-called "overreaction" is guaranteed to happen, pretty much on a daily basis.
  4. Assuming Stallworth gets on the field, it will be interesting to see whether the Patriots put Stallworth into Branch's old role, or whether they slide him into Lllllllllllloyd's role and have Llllllllllllllllllllllllloyd take the Branch/Edelman role.


I agree on all your points. Wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the #2.

I think the drop in production has a lot to do with trying to get Hernandez back to game form. I think Lloyd and Hernandez are both running routes on similar average depth and therefore one of their numbers gets called on certain down and distance situations. Considering that notion, I suspect that they have propably substituted some of Lloyds hot reads to Hernandez just to get him up to speed.

Hernandez went from 0 targets in week 11 (yeah, didn't play) to 3 targets in week 12 to 13 targets in week 13. Lloyd went from 7 to 5 to 1. Hardly conclusive but you can see the negative correlation there.
 
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Bedard had some interesting observations on Lloyd in his D&C appearance yesterday. We're a game specific offense and at times that is personnel/role specific. When we need the short to intermediate quick passing game to pick up the slack it's all about YAC. That is why Edelman was taking targets and snaps away from Lloyd, as was Branch before he got dinged. While Lloyd's bread and butter is body control and the back shoulder sideline play, and they worked on that a lot early on possibly to their detriment as returns weren't justifying the attempts, due to other injuries he's been asked to do more of late of what he said he could, run all the routes including crossing the middle. Bedard says he's not a physical receiver and he avoids contact. Not to the extent he alligator arms catches, but he tends to get down quickly and settle for less than may be there. Guys like Welker and Branch will avoid the big hit, but they don't go to ground premptively as Lloyd seems inclined to. They get as much YAC as they reasonable can before discreetly avoiding harms way. He believes Lloyd has been talked to in the recent past and anticipates he's going to be hearing the same thing again. Have to remain upright in reasonable situations where the expectation is tacking on some YAC if you want to be targeted. Will be interesting to see if they turn to Stallworth at all. That was his forte once upon a time. But he was struggling in camp to pick up or catch balls in anything resembling traffic.
 
Bedard had some interesting observations on Lloyd in his D&C appearance yesterday. We're a game specific offense and at times that is personnel/role specific. When we need the short to intermediate quick passing game to pick up the slack it's all about YAC. That is why Edelman was taking targets and snaps away from Lloyd, as was Branch before he got dinged. While Lloyd's bread and butter is body control and the back shoulder sideline play, and they worked on that a lot early on possibly to their detriment as returns weren't justifying the attempts, due to other injuries he's been asked to do more of late of what he said he could, run all the routes including crossing the middle. Bedard says he's not a physical receiver and he avoids contact. Not to the extent he alligator arms catches, but he tends to get down quickly and settle for less than may be there. Guys like Welker and Branch will avoid the big hit, but they don't go to ground premptively as Lloyd seems inclined to. They get as much YAC as they reasonable can before discreetly avoiding harms way. He believes Lloyd has been talked to in the recent past and anticipates he's going to be hearing the same thing again. Have to remain upright in reasonable situations where the expectation is tacking on some YAC if you want to be targeted. Will be interesting to see if they turn to Stallworth at all. That was his forte once upon a time. But he was struggling in camp to pick up or catch balls in anything resembling traffic.

Not sure I agree with that (bolded part) completely. Maybe a little chicken-egg argument; but I see the YAC as a natural result of the short-intermediate passing, not the GOAL of it.

That is, Brady is NOT deciding I will throw to this less open WR because he is aligned to get more YAC than the MORE OPEN sideline wr. I think Brady just throws to the guy who LOOKS MORE OPEN from his perspective. Unfortunately for Llllloyd (""-credit DI) the FURTHER YOU ARE AWAY FROM HIM (TB)--- the LESS OPEN you APPEAR TO BE (the CB may be in a bad position, but is still between Lloyd and TB's line of sight).
 
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The thing is people's expectations of Brandon Lloyd were way off-base. He's never been a fast guy, he's never had the ability to threaten a defense deep. He's a strong receiver who struggles to get separation but can make tough catches on the sidelines. That's it. And that's who he has been. He's a complimentary piece, fans were thinking he'd be Reggie Wayne or Greg Jennings for this team. He isn't that kind of player. If he were, he wouldn't have signed a 3 year, 12 million dollars deal here.

+1

I don't understand the grumblings that he isn't a Randy Moss type when he never was a big seperation speedster with any other team. The Pats knew exactly what they were getting given McDaniels experience coaching Lloyd. He has kept his mouth shut, worked hard and made some great plays; I think Lloyd still has a chance to be a major contributor. While he has not been perfect Lloyd is a nice complimentary player. Brady may need to factor him into the game plan a bit more depending on injuries but Lloyd is light years better/brighter than Ocho.
 
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My info wasnt an over reaction.

Lloyd is averaging less then 3 yards after the catch, everyone else outside of hernandez is 5+

If we need someone to make a diving sideline catch right at the marker lloyd might get targeted, but if its a homerun potential seam route lloyd has proven he cant handle it.
 
Just a few things:

  1. Many, though of course not all, of us looked at Llllllllllllllllllllllloyd as a player who would help by threatening middle-deep, but mostly by threatening outside the lines in the mid-range as opposed to making lots of deep catches.
  2. There has clearly been a change in the way that Llllllllllllllloyd is being used. The Jets game was the turning point. Whether that's because of injury, or because of the several Brady passes that Lllllloyd should have gotten but didn't, is something that this team isn't about to share with the public.
  3. The Patriots have, through their choice of constant CIA information lockdown, created a situation where the media and fans glom on to the tiniest bit of information and analyze it as if it's the next Rosetta stone. As a result, so-called "overreaction" is guaranteed to happen, pretty much on a daily basis.
  4. Assuming Stallworth gets on the field, it will be interesting to see whether the Patriots put Stallworth into Branch's old role, or whether they slide him into Lllllllllllloyd's role and have Llllllllllllllllllllllllloyd take the Branch/Edelman role.

While I would agree that all above is true, I think many fans (to include myself) are simply disappointed with some aspects of his game.

He has been a pleasant surprise in Run Blocking (although i must admit I had no knowledge or prior-history expectations of him one way or another here).

He has actually numbers-wise for the season, met reasonable expectations as a complementary player to the other receiving threats particularly when viewed in context of a much improved run game.

I think based solely on his numbers last year, many (I included) had unrealistic expectations of his deep-threat speed. So a lot of complaints although unreasonable - are a result of a mismatch of reality to expectations.

THAT SAID -- These seem to be valid (or potentially valid-#3) criticisms:
1. The inability to gain separation consistently seems to be a theme.
2. The falling down / going for unnecessary acrobatic catch / avoiding contact appears to be another theme.
3. ?? his target-catch ratio is very poor.

One thing I noted (ref 1) on 2 plays in Miami game was that he seemed much slower than Edelman, Welker, and TEs in coming out of his initial stance - "jump on the snap". That seems something coachable and not just; "he is older and slower than his 10 year old 40 time" as someone pointed out.

But this consistent not getting separation limits his targets. Brady has even admitted several times that Lloyd is open on tape; but he gets open after TB looked his way - so TB put it on himself that he needed to be more patient on Lloyd's routes. (or TB just doesnt see it due to the angles).

The #2 seems to be (IMO) that although he actually KNOWS THE PLAYBOOK and runs the correct routes; he still seems to do a littleOchoizing of the route - flattening or not cutting as sharply as needed. (Is hard to say as we don't know exactly what play design was.) but several times (that I saw based on where TB threw the ball) it results in not catching in stride (therefore falls down) or leaving no room by the sideline to turn upfield (runs out of bounds) etc.

On #3. He has gotten better (hey 1:1 = 100% this past week); but his rec % as a basis of targets was (I believe) the lowest WR and below the TEs who normally catch in more traffic. Some of this is due to TB using him as his 'avoid the intentional grounding' Go-To guy; so I am not sure what his true % should be or if it means he has avg or bad hands. I personally thought he needed to hit the jugs machine (wasnt used to the Brady-zip on the ball) early on in the season.
 
This is where I'll disagree. Defenses have been selling out to take away Welker/Gronk/Hernandez since day 1, and Lloyd hasn't shown he can make them pay yet.

I agree with Rob...not impressed at all with Lloyd, i expected a little more.:snob:
 


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