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Time For Change

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Patriots2001, Jan 20, 2013.

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  1. Patriots2001

    Patriots2001 Rookie

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    Whatever it is this is not working..We have become the Colts finesse teams do not win the Superbowl..Bill Belichek needs to get back to what the Giants were all about back in the 80's
  2. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    you cant win the SB every year i say injoy the ride they are in the playoffs every year after Brady retires in a few years they may not even get that for some time
  3. FortressX

    FortressX Rookie

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    We have been a Colts( and now Falcons) like team for many years now.
    I thought The Pats were moving away from that, but not yet.
  4. PYPER

    PYPER Rookie

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    The margin between victory and defeat is very small. We had a great season. When you can't appreciate a 12-4 season that includes hosting the AFC Championship Game, perhaps one's perspective has become a bit spoiled.

    If Welker doesn't drop that 3rd down catch and if the Ref doesn't screw up the Ridley fumble (his ass WAS on the ground), it's a different game.

    As far as finesse, we were not a finesse team this year. Our defense hit hard (forced almost twice as many fumbles as the next best team) and we ran the ball very well on offense. Sometimes, the other team just plays a little bit better or gets the breaks, or both.
  5. DVN

    DVN Rookie

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    I'm just going to go ahead and say it even though I feel I'm going to get roasted.

    Tom Brady is not what he used to be.

    He's become the Peyton Manning we always used to laugh at, great in the regular season but not clutch when it counts most. Granted, I know receivers dropped passes, but early in the game on various 3rd and shorts, Brady went for the 10-15 yard throw into tight coverage instead of taking the first down underneath for an easy 5 yards. There were so many passes that were off target or in the ground.

    I'm afraid the Brady glory days aren't coming back guys. Who cares about the regular season and regular season stats when he plays sub-par in the most important games.

    13 points aren't going to do it.
  6. patriotsdynasty12189

    patriotsdynasty12189 Rookie

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    Its football ball bounces one way or the other. If Welker catches that pass we probably score a TD and its 20-7 and the Ravens have their backs to the wall. But he didnt and the Ravens capitalized.
  7. pheenix11

    pheenix11 Rookie

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    A QB who can suck it up and run 5 yards for a wide open first down once in a while during crunch time would be nice.
  8. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    Seriously, there's no excuse or sugarcoating it. Baltimore kicked their ***** and in the end defense really does win regardless of the scores of the games last weekend and the Pats lost their championship mettle when the likes of Rodney Harrison, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Willie McGinest, and Ty Law left town.
  9. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If this were still the 80s, then the 80s style of play might work.

    But today's rules don't allow even the style the Pats were playing in 2004, let alone from BB's days with the Giants.
  10. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    The Patriots need to do with Brady what the Broncos did with John Elway late in his career. Get him a stud running back who takes the pressure off Brady to have to do it all by himself. He can't any longer. Tom Brady and these Patriots cannot beat tough physical teams.
  11. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Rookie

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    I don't think anyone can or should disagree with you. Brady definitely is not the QB he once was and he's also playing scared, or something. If we had a QB like Colin Kaepernick, there is no doubt we would win almost every game, every year. sometimes, it looks like Brady lost that fire during games.
  12. Patriots2001

    Patriots2001 Rookie

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    What if Tyree didn't catch that ball,what id Asante Samual caught that interception what if Welker didn't drop the pass last year. What if's don't win playoff games..You need to go out and punch the other team in the mouth and the last time we had a team like that IMO was 2001...
  13. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Other than the Boldin matchup (which normally would be matched or outweighed by the Gronk one) and the Pollard KO on Ridley (which normally would have been flagged by the refs), I didn't really see the Pats get physically beaten.
  14. JFK

    JFK Rookie

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    We need a legit Deep threat receiver.
  15. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    We have not become a finesse team. That's retarded. We got beat today. It didn't help that we didn't have Gronk and Talib. If they had played, we still might've lost. Just not our night. Overreaction, I guess, reigns supreme. Take a breath.
  16. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I disagree with this. I think it's pretty clear that Brady wants it. I just think he wants it so bad that he's losing his focus and just not executing to his usual level. He's not the first superstar to fall victim to this dynamic.
  17. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    Brady just turns into a fraidy Cat against some teams...ravens, NYG and he looks like superman against others.
  18. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And;

    • tackles who can collapse the pocket,
    • ends who can rush the passer,
    • DB's who can locate the ball, &
    • linebackers who can cover tight ends.

    There's quite a few on that wish list.

    TBH, McDaniels play calling left me baffled. He's developed a serious issue since SB42 with playoff game calling.
  19. PatriotReign

    PatriotReign Rookie

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    No legitimate deep threat receiver, Lloyd just isn't going to cut it. And the fact they didn't try to get Fells or Hooman involved was befuddling.
  20. jcrack

    jcrack Rookie

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    :eek: Well said. The team has a lot of issues. Beating soft teams during the regular season masked a lot of that. Texans were a fraud, beating them gave a lot of fans false confidence.
  21. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    difference is, elway still had the do or die warrior mentality until the very end.....brady just seems too.....I don't know.....fragile looking out there

    it just looks like the same coupld of bullies come around every year, pull the pats collective underwear over their head and then tell them that they'll be back.

    it's interesting.....both SB teams have 'cheap' QB's......guys on their rookie contracts or something close to it.....3 of the final 4 were in that situation.....the last time the pats won an SB, brady was a 5M cap hit


    maybe the day of the 20M/yr QB is over
  22. DC_Patriot

    DC_Patriot Rookie

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    So where were all these Debbie Downers saying "we have no edge in the playoffs" or "we can't beat physical teams" after the Texans game?

    We didn't lose because Brady lost his edge.

    We didn't lose because we're a "finesse" team, whatever the hell that is.

    We got outplayed, plain and simple. The Ravens were the better team tonight. No more excuses. It's time to start thinking about next year. I fully believe this nucleus can win the Super Bowl, and so did almost all of you before tonight.
  23. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Message to the moron contingent, we don't need less talent we need more. And it would help if it's durable. We lost tonight because we play on a margin driven in part by the value model. Brady is the least of this teams problems. When we lose what other little elite talent or as close to it as we've come of late at critical positions we don't have the pure talent to overcome an opponent who might struggle in season with less depth but if healthy in the post season poses a tougher matchup.

    Branch was our 3rd WR on the field tonight. Welker and Lloyd both had drops but there was no alternative but to keep targeting the same two guys. And Hernandez, who simply isn't a $7M TE when not in tandem with another one. Both of whom shape an offense that struggles in their absence. The running game was supposed to counter some of that but for all it's flashes it still struggles when the chips are down. And Vereen's speed and receiving ability that might have been presumed to cause the Raven's D problems simply never was apparently never part of the game plan. The plan itself may be part of the problem because we react and rely so much on scheme it almost renders us incapable of simply stepping up and making plays. Some of that is lack of talent and some of it is over reliance on scheme. The more Belichick coached up that D the worse it played.

    Brady had some time at times but no one who could get open. The defense was so worried about Flacco going deep they couldn't stop the run or the intermediate throws that converted 3rd and long. Once Talib went out they just wilted. I think it was one of the more poorly coached games I've seen in a while.

    I agree it's time for a change, but that change involves addition rather than subtraction. They need another outside WR who can get open not via scheme but via talent and speed. Probably need to draft that guy since you have $15M per tied up in the TE's. Need to figure out whether to extend or replace Talib with equal or better and more durable talent. Need to figure out what you're doing with the young backs and commit to them or move on. Can't run a two TE offense when you often don't have two available talented enough to. Can't run 3 or 4 wide when you don't have the horses to. Can't count on the running game when you still can't run even when they know you are.

    We became one dimentional again, the same thing Belichick supposedly tasked McDaniels last off season with eliminating the possibility of ever happening again. Guys are going to drop balls and even fumble them on occasion. You have to be able to overcome that. We still lack the talent to. Opponents are going to make plays but you have to be able to make stops too. And if you aren't getting any pressure you have to stop banging your head against the wall and change it up. We didn't on either side of the ball and so we end up with the post season headache again.
  24. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Indeed and, the truly worrisome thing about this list is ..... BB (a defensive mastermind?) has been re-building this defense for the last 7 years and is still a ways away.
  25. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Not working? This team just went to the SB and now came a game away from the SB. And who knows what else if our biggest weapon doesn't get hurt BOTH years at the worst time.

    This defense is being rebuilt, the secondary was in absolute shambles last year and we had a so-so front 7 outside of Wilfork/Mayo especially once Carter went down. This year we fielded a solid secondary when full strength and a nasty front 7 until Jones/Talib went down. Overall I feel the improvement from 2011 to 2012 was encouraging aside from a stretch of 3 drives. If we can add one or two more guys to this defense (or actually keep our starting CB's healthy), and progress from some of the key contributors on D that have been in the league for under 4 seasons, we may take that next step. Not sure what 'change' you are talking about but let's not overreact to one poor outing.
  26. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    A LOT of terrible posts in this thread. I agree with the last two. People whining about "finesse" and Brady strike me as 20-somethings or teens who have grown accustomed to winning Super Bowls every year, not realizing that it's HARD. Your childish sense of entitlement and frantic level of panic is actually a really good barometer of just how under-appreciated and historic their run over the last decade-plus has been.

    We lost a game tonight and won't be going to the Super Bowl. It sucks. It's a bitter pill. But let's not be so overreactive and petulant about it.

    Congrats to the Ravens. F off, I hope you lose.
  27. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    What he said.
  28. jcrack

    jcrack Rookie

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    All these other teams are always riled up and feed off their coaches/veteran players. NE always tries to out-smart their opponents. Doesnt work like that anymore. You need some deep threats on O and a very physical pass rush/defense. This quick offense with 5 yard passes doesnt work in the playoffs. Changes definitely need to be made.
  29. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady may be the least of the Pats problems but he is not without fault and blame.

    Not only that but the need to field better players as you state, is very largely restricted by Brady's very large cap charge which is why we end up seeing players such as Branch and Cole and Gregory and Arrington and Francis playing out there.
  30. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    I'll take a stab at this.....the texans were to the pats what the pats were to the ravens.....someone who got outplayed and outcoached in every single aspect.......clean sweep

    we lost because brady played scared........and when he plays scared, the est of them play scared.......he's a great leader until someone hits him a few times, then he goes uh-oh and heads for the hills.

    they lost because we got outplayed in every way possible......they lost because they didn't even try to use what worked so well against the texans. the defense did great in the first half except that the offense was incapable of taking advantage, and then the offense got shut out in the 2nd half.

    someone mentioned the pats should get an RB like elway had in the end....why? they won't use him right.

    the pats would have won the game if they tried to run the ball 50 times....the run worked well enough to do just that......but everything has to pass through brady because he gets paid so damned much. brady makes more than the 3 other AFCC/NFCC starting QB's combined.


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