Tiki and Ronde Barber: "Everyone does it and everyone knows it"

[DarrylS]

Happy to, and Schlereth (sp?) covered this on ESPN, he would know, being an ex-offensive lineman (which may be telling about the Broncos, but that's an argument for another time). You take the tape into the locker room at half time, you look at the signals alongside the stills of the pre-snap and post-snap polaroids that every team gets of every play, and you figure out when this hand signal goes in, these are the adjustments they make, so now we know what we need to do to counter that. In the second half, you have a jump on what the defense is doing. That's one example, I'm sure there are more that I'm not aware of.

And all of this is done in 12 minutes.. hope no one has to take a leak. Schelereth is just another talking head, contributing to the hysteria..

 

[Cannon Arm]

Why don't you try to explain how this would give the Pats a competitive advantage during this game, i.e cheating?? No one has demonstrated how the taping during this game would give them a competitive edge on Sunday.

Occam's razor says that football coaches do things that help their team win. It's up to you to prove that football coaches waste time on things that don't help their team win. The burden of proof isn't on us. You're the one making the extraordinary claim, so you must provide extraordinary evidence to support your claim.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

however we parse the word "cheating," the point is that Barber is saying that every team seeks a competitive advantage by doing things that are explicitly or implicitly forbidden by league rules or practice. we can wordsmith all we want, but that is what it comes down to.

(to be precise, videotaping broke the rules but wasn't cheating. using the "against the rules" videotape would have been cheating, but the tape never made it to the lockerroom on Sunday, so we probably didn't cheat on sunday.)

Mangini has put Goodell in the position of having to address publicly something, viz., widespread stealing of opponents signals, that he would no doubt have preferred to deal with as a "league matter" rather than a media matter. This will ultimately come back to haunt mangini.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, this is what Barber is saying. Perhaps many of the teams support such behavior. The Commission wants a change, and one of his biggest supporters in this effort is the ownership of the New England Patriots.

however we parse the word "cheating," the point is that Barber is saying that every team seeks a competitive advantage by doing things that are explicitly or implicitly forbidden by league rules or practice. we can wordsmith all we want, but that is what it comes down to.

(to be precise, videotaping broke the rules but wasn't cheating. using the "against the rules" videotape would have been cheating, but the tape never made it to the lockerroom on Sunday, so we probably didn't cheat on sunday.)

Mangini has put Goodell in the position of having to address publicly something, viz., widespread stealing of opponents signals, that he would no doubt have preferred to deal with as a "league matter" rather than a media matter. This will ultimately come back to haunt mangini.

 

[PantsB]

(to be precise, videotaping broke the rules but wasn't cheating. using the "against the rules" videotape would have been cheating, but the tape never made it to the lockerroom on Sunday, so we probably didn't cheat on sunday.)

As the Dolphins showed last year, using a sign stealing tape is perfectly legal. Only the actual videotaping is apparently illegal.

 

[DarrylS]

Occam's razor says that football coaches do things that help their team win. It's up to you to prove that football coaches waste time on things that don't help their team win. The burden of proof isn't on us. You're the one making the extraordinary claim, so you must provide extraordinary evidence to support your claim.

So I guess, amongst all of the rhetoric, you cannot explain how this would give the Patriots a competitive edge??? What us are you referring to.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

And all of this is done in 12 minutes.. hope no one has to take a leak. Schelereth is just another talking head, contributing to the hysteria..

With the video guy and one coach sitting down, I think it could take less than 10, probably less than 5 given the number of repeated signals they're probably looking at. The tape would ONLY contain defensive coach's signals, might be 10 mins long.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Yes, this is what Barber is saying. Perhaps many of the teams support such behavior. The Commission wants a change, and one of his biggest supporters in this effort is the ownership of the New England Patriots.

Just a crazy thought, but maybe BB wanted to get caught in order to address this very situation. Maybe this type of thing has hurt the Patriots too!

 

[DarrylS]

With the video guy and one coach sitting down, I think it could take less than 10, probably less than 5 given the number of repeated signals they're probably looking at. The tape would ONLY contain defensive coach's signals, might be 10 mins long.

Is there time for editing the tape, lots of stuff happens in the first half.. lots of time in between to tape and then filter through.. still do not see how this would work. There are usually 2 decoys and 1 guy actually making the calls. The use of the same technology, with a telephoto lens, that is used for the QB's might be a better way.. I think that this system is archaic based on modern technology. I just don't see how it would work, there is a lot of stuff happening during half time..

 

[spacecrime]

I'm as big a Pats fan as anyone,

No you're not. Be a fan of another team if you want, but saying the Pats are dishonest while you are lying about your own affiliations is hypocritical.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Wasn't the camera confiscated in the first (or second?) quarter thereby removing any kind of 'early information' that the Pats could have had?

Another explanation could be that the Pats (and I guess every team) would be building its database for defensive signals of ALL teams - which explains why we probably might have done it against the Packers and Lions - knowing pretty well that there is always a chance that we might play any team later on that year or the next.

Correct, and most likely correct. Although since teams change signals regularly it's just more an exercise in determining tendancies on all NFL teams.

Schlereth forgot that teams are only in the locker room for roughly 12 minutes at the half, minus pee stops and ass chewings and equipment adjustments. Then as a former HC explained to another of the mediots you would have to review the tape and match the calls to the formations and need to have a guy on the field consistently who was smart enough to memorize all the formations and signals and capable of multitasking so he could keep and eyeball on the opposing DC so he could relay the defense to the QB. The QB headset isn't on long enough (I think it shuts off at 20 seconds) for the sidelines to communicate that information to him. And if he's trying to read the defense just in case his handlers don't come through, he's way to busy to glance at his QB coach for hand signals of their own...

assinine.

 

[Gunnails]

Lincoln Kennedy said the same thing - which is why we should be hit for videotaping and nothing more.

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I agree 100%,,,,except there mite of been a problem with the radio frequency thing, that should be dealt with also.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Is there time for editing the tape, lots of stuff happens in the first half.. lots of time in between to tape and then filter through.. still do not see how this would work. There are usually 2 decoys and 1 guy actually making the calls. The use of the same technology, with a telephoto lens, that is used for the QB's might be a better way.. I think that this system is archaic based on modern technology. I just don't see how it would work, there is a lot of stuff happening during half time..

A video camera is a very complicated tool, you turn hit a button when you want to START taping, then you hit the same button to make it STOP taping. No editing needed.