Tight end Shuffle: Hartsock, Maneri, Terrence Miller in; Jones, Watson, RB Houston out

[Ring 6]

You think that they did not make adjustments to the offense in season? We certainly did not start last season as a power run team but we made the changes because we had too. They did the same thing in 2012, they used a lot more 3 WR sets.

What point are you trying to make?
The discussion was about having a 2 TE scheme. When you build you scheme around the players, you can't just abandon it when one is banged up.
When Hernandez was out, we used much less 2 TE, and more 3 WR.
When Gronk was out, we still used 2 TE, because Hernandez couldn't play real TE.
Lets not kid ourselves that Hernandez was a true TE. He almost never lined up on the los. He was something between an HBack and a slot receiver.
The system was 1 TE plus Hernandez in whatever you would consider that role. Gronks backup and injury replacement wasn't Hernandez.

 

[mgteich]

I seem to have a different concern than many others here. I am NOT interested in whether we can run an offense that focuses on its 2 TE's. I also am not interested in whether we can have an offense that focuses on the run. We have neither of these offenses. Sure, I'm fine is seeing if Williams can be the move TE if there is a game plan where that is the best option. However, this is not a big deal. We run a 2 WR, 1 RB, ONE TE set. Sometimes we will add a WR, sometimes a RB, sometimes a FB and sometimes a blocking TE (who is ideally someone like Hooman who might be able to catch a pass once in a great while).

My issue is NOT that we don't have a backup for Gronkowski. Hooman is probably an average backup TE. My issue is that we made little preparation for the possibility that Gronk and/or Hooman might not be available for Game One. I keep on getting told that those available are not better Hooman in our offense. OK, I'd rather have someone who knew the offense as well as Hooman and who could replace Gronk if Hooman could not. I'd like to have a Plan B that it something other than signing a street free agent.

Folks tell me that having a JAG or two to compete with Hooman and to be an injury reserve is a waste of a valuable roster spot. Nonsense! We are talking about the 89th and 90th roster spot. I think that it was worth having a JAG TE. Of course, in the end, we sign Manieri.

I think that we should realize that the advantage of a 90-man roster is to be able to have JAG's on the roster to compete and as camp fodder.

 

[ATippett56]

I think that we should realize that the advantage of a 90-man roster is to be able to have JAG's on the roster to compete and as camp fodder.

The New England Patriots re-signed tight end Justin Jones.

The alternatives, it seems, are not better:

2014 NFL Free Agents - free Agency Update - Rotoworld

 

[mgteich]

The New England Patriots re-signed tight end Justin Jones.

The alternatives, it seems, are not better:

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/47305/309/2014-nfl-free-agents

I agree that at this late date, Belichick is doing all he can. Having ignore the issue for months, Manieri and Jones are arguably the best out there, certainly for the last two preseason games. Someone has to play Game 4 at TE.

 

[Betterthanmost]

What BB said about him after he was released was very mean in my opinion. So unlike BB. I am really surprise they have brought him back.

 

[Joker]

Jones is a raw, big bodied kid. He was just cut after a disappearing act in preseason game #1...now he knows how THAT feels and maybe a sense of urgency takes hold. A 6'8" frame inside the 10 yard line couple with a Gronk presents size matchup problems for every single team in this league. If this kid can work on becoming a better pro, maybe he sticks. Why is that a bad thing to some of you,I don't get it?

 

[RayClay]

I agree that at this late date, Belichick is doing all he can. Having ignore the issue for months, Manieri and Jones are arguably the best out there, certainly for the last two preseason games. Someone has to play Game 4 at TE.

If he sees candidates at the 75 and/or 53 level cut down possibly, it isn't late at all. All that's available now is players other teams don't want.

Then, of course, there's the guaranteed contract aspect, if he's looking at one of the injury recovery guys.

 

[RayClay]

Jones is a raw, big bodied kid. He was just cut after a disappearing act in preseason game #1...now he knows how THAT feels and maybe a sense of urgency takes hold. A 6'8" frame inside the 10 yard line couple with a Gronk presents size matchup problems for every single team in this league. If this kid can work on becoming a better pro, maybe he sticks. Why is that a bad thing to some of you,I don't get it?

It's known as a wake up call.

 

[Deus Irae]

Jones is a raw, big bodied kid. He was just cut after a disappearing act in preseason game #1...now he knows how THAT feels and maybe a sense of urgency takes hold. A 6'8" frame inside the 10 yard line couple with a Gronk presents size matchup problems for every single team in this league. If this kid can work on becoming a better pro, maybe he sticks. Why is that a bad thing to some of you,I don't get it?

You'll have to excuse people for not being thrilled by his reappearance. He's not done anything that makes people think he'll be worth a damn at other than about 5 yards out from the endzone and less, and some people think a TE should be at least slightly more functional than that.

 

[Joker]

Unless you subscribe to the hysteria that Hooman is breathing his last breath and Gronk is never coming back, I really don't see what is so earth shatteringly horrible about bringing back a rook with attributes that led the team to pick him up in the first place. Sure, he was invisible the first preseason game...and Mallett looked like Ryan Leaf. It's preseason...THIS is the time for taking looks and kicking tires. Krist, WTF is it now, we need an absolute answer to the starting day roster a week before the third preseason?

 

[Deus Irae]

Unless you subscribe to the hysteria that Hooman is breathing his last breath and Gronk is never coming back, I really don't see what is so earth shatteringly horrible about bringing back a rook with attributes that led the team to pick him up in the first place. Sure, he was invisible the first preseason game...and Mallett looked like Ryan Leaf. It's preseason...THIS is the time for taking looks and kicking tires. Krist, WTF is it now, we need an absolute answer to the starting day roster a week before the third preseason?

He's sucked. People would rather see someone else given a shot. Whether you agree with that idea in the end, or not, I don't see why this is a problem for you. It's not as if it's a notion out of left field.

 

[Joker]

It's no problem for me. He HAS sucked so far.He's a freakin' rookie for chrissakes. What do YOU want, an All Pro to come in and learn this system to play 3rd TE? They have time invested in this kid, maybe he wakes up maybe he doesn't, it's no skin off my back. Do you have better options for 3rd TE with familiarity in the Pats offense? If you do, I'd like to hear who they are, maybe THEY will be signed before the start of the season.

edit: anyway, I'm going to the last practice today. I'll try to see what they are doing with him ,if anything.Practice starts at 2pm for those of us that care to attend.

 

[Ring 6]

Very appropriate to this thread, Gronk is going full out now, and Hooman is back at practice, so the thought that BB was asleep at the wheel and would have Maneri starting week 1 appears to be null.

 

[mgteich]

Gronk and Hooman will likely be ready for Game.

How does it follow that we didn't need a body or two in case they weren't ready?

How does it follow that we couldn't have used some veteran competition for Hooman.

And yes, the nature of a 90 man camp is that there is always a UDFA body around. Even these UDFA's were so bad that all were gone as of last week; one is back now. We need someone for Game 4.

Very appropriate to this thread, Gronk is going full out now, and Hooman is back at practice, so the thought that BB was asleep at the wheel and would have Maneri starting week 1 appears to be null.

 

[Joker]

Gronk and Hooman will likely be ready for Game.

How does it follow that we didn't need a body or two in case they weren't ready?

How does it follow that we couldn't have used some veteran competition for Hooman.

And yes, the nature of a 90 man camp is that there is always a UDFA body around. Even these UDFA's were so bad that all were gone as of last week; one is back now. We need someone for Game 4.

do you even READ the camp reports? or are you making that patented Patsfans declaration "our depth sucks therefore BAD!"? Maneri isn't a veteran? Maneri didn't take his reps in full yesterday? I didn't see any problems finding reps for the backups at TE yesterday...this TE hysteria is ridiculous.

 

[Ring 6]

Gronk and Hooman will likely be ready for Game.

How does it follow that we didn't need a body or two in case they weren't ready?

How does it follow that we couldn't have used some veteran competition for Hooman.

And yes, the nature of a 90 man camp is that there is always a UDFA body around. Even these UDFA's were so bad that all were gone as of last week; one is back now. We need someone for Game 4.

Not sure where I said all of those things.
In any event, I cared zero that Maneri didn't have a backup for preseason game 2.
I understand the competition for Hooman concept, but I think that the UDFAs, the Maneris, and the Hartsocks were the best options BB found that were available and willing to come here.
We can name a whole bunch of crappy TEs who you can call veterans but I think the combination of the battle among the UDFAs, plus the scrap heap veterans plus waiting for someone better than those slugs to be cut is arguably a better plan.

 

[Joker]

that IS the point, Andy. The Pats HAVE addressed the TE position and ARE working it with a full complement of healthy bodies. I smell Gonzalez lust in all this negativity.

 

[Deus Irae]

that IS the point, Andy. The Pats HAVE addressed the TE position and ARE working it with a full complement of healthy bodies. I smell Gonzalez lust in all this negativity.

No. What you "smell" is people who see an oft-injured TE1 coming back from yet another major injury, and being backed up by a TE3-level player, because of the absence of a TE2-level player.

Naturally, people who see the position that way (and that's certainly how it played out last season) have issues with the position's current situation.

 

[Joker]

glass half empty, Deus.If one has "issues" with Gronk this year, or "issues" with Hooman as a solid backup then there's not much anyone can do besides letting it play out. This constant fret party is tedious however.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Neither side of this whole debate is exactly wrong, IMO. On one hand, Gronk is oft-injured, so wanting to have better-than-average depth behind him isn't unreasonable.

OTOH, Hooman is an adequate TE2 on a team that runs a 1 TE offense.

I wouldn't say that the Pats are gambling on Gronk's health--at least any more than you always are since nobody who's realistically acquirable could even approximate his production--but they certainly haven't gone out of their way to hedge against the likelihood of injury.

Only time will tell if they've made the right call.