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Tight end mediocrity?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BlitzFritz, Jan 28, 2009.

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  1. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Ben Watson and Dave Thomas are fine tho not stellar in my view.
    After a few years of a TE oriented offense, perhaps the addition of Welker has moved the NEP away from the need for three strong TEs??

    What do you think about the importance of the TE in our offense now?

    Secondly, could we be headed for another oh-so boring TE draft selection given that both Watson and Thomas are free agents after this coming season?

    -- FRITZ
     
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    We could use our #1 at tight end, I wouldn't be surprised. Watson was a workout wonder who still can't play high quality TE, and Thomas is not starter quality.

    Mayock loves Pettigrew, says he's the best TE in the draft with no flaws.
     
  3. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Pro Bowl Player

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    At this point, I'd rather see the Pats sign a proven Free Agent veteran Tightend than draft one. We need to use our picks on DEFENSE. The only Offensive players that I want to see the Pats draft are OFFENSIVE LINEMEN. WE MUST BUILD A FORTRESS AROUND THE FRANCHISE!
     
  4. Nestapats

    Nestapats Practice Squad Player

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    Yeah, but if you get a blocking and receiving TE like pettigrew in the draft than you upgrade two things on offense with one pick. I agree though that a proven TE is much more valuable for the Pats now.
     
  5. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    We are not a 2 TE offence people we are going 3 WR in base and 4 WR in cases making a TE a pure blocking assest ,who maybe due to a defence asked to go out to catch a few throws .
    So most of the above set we can only field 1 TE as the other guy is a RB.When faulk gets in with evans as lead blocking we take WR off the field leaving 1 TE again.

    watson played like 75% of the snaps in this offence and he has developed alot as a blocker this year .
    HOW CAN A PLAYER WHO PLAYED 3RD MOST SNAPS OTHER THAN MOSS AND WES BE MEDIOCRE?

    As we opened the playbook with casell thomas did not even get on the field as we went more 4 WR with Faulk sets.

    which brings the important question why draft/sign a FA TE when in a game where you need a 3rd TE you got evans or a Lineman
    if we sign a new TE are we going to cut thomas or keep him as an inactive.
    we do not need more than 2 TE on game day with 1 playing spl teams.so a 3rd TE is a useless roster spot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  6. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I think that BB likes good tight ends because they create matchup problems. An ideal tight end can block linebackers well (On the line or from the backfield) and run routes with reasonable precision. This way, if the defense puts in a linebacker to compensate for the "ideal TE", you bring him into the formation and you have a blocking advantage. If the defense brings in a heavier DL-type player to compensate for the "ideal TE" you split him out and run a pass play, creating a passing advantage. However, if the TE isn't that great, and the defense's base personnel can handle your TE without any substitutions, the defense has an advantage.

    With Moss and Welker, you can still create the same advantages, just in a different way. Moss is, in and of himself, an advantage in the passing game. You need to account for him with two people. Always. Because of this, he creates passing game advantages everywhere, because coverage will be weaker on every other reciever. Also, there will be less men near the line of scrimmage to defend against the run, so there is a running game advantage also.

    So, yes, we do not focus as much on the 2 and 3 TE sets because that's just not the personnel we have. We happen to have a GOAT QB and a GOAT WR, and that just screws with every defense.
     
  7. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This years draft is suppose to have a very good and deep TE class. I can see the Patriots taking a TE sometime and an OT as that class is supoose to be very good too.
     
  8. Mosi Moose

    Mosi Moose On the Game Day Roster

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    Agree. This draft will definitely include a TE for us, but I doubt it will be on Day 1.
     
  9. captadamnj

    captadamnj On the Game Day Roster

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    We saw Cassel can run, he's a big guy and he knows the routes. Maybe if he's franchised and not traded, the Pats can use him at TE? :D :D :D

    (No, I'm not really serious. But I'm not sure I'd put it past BB... :) )
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  10. Pat_the_Patriot

    Pat_the_Patriot Practice Squad Player

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    I think that we'll see a TE from the draft this year. As others have said, this year's TE class is supposed to be deep. If we see any team (Bills and Falcons should be looking at TE pretty heavy this year, too) take a TE in the first round (any position)... then I do believe that we'll hold off until day two (third round or higher)... BUT, if we see Pettigrew "fall" (not sure if a TE can "fall" in round one) to us at #23, I could see us grabbing at him.

    Again, as previously stated, Watson is a work out freak but is not an elite TE (although he has stopped playing tip drill with the DBs every other pass attempt thrown his way). I really like Thomas and am not giving up on him as our second TE... but I don't believe he's a number one.

    As far day two (round three picks)... maybe Coffman or Cook?

    Just my two pennies.
     
  11. JMarr

    JMarr In the Starting Line-Up

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    The Pats don't seem to like to use TEs in the passing game as much as a lot of other teams. But those other teams usually have guys like Gonzalez, Witten, Winslow, or Gates. I still think Watson can be a solid and versatile TE in the NFL. The jury's definitely still out on Thomas. He's been mediocre so far and I'm still pissed at his stupidity vs. the Colts.

    I watched Pettigrew play a bit this year. The guy is basically unstoppable and could be a monster addition to any offense.
     
  12. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    The two Superman offense didn't work out (Graham Watson). I agree that their offense is fine and they could pick up some good blocking tight ends that can catch short passes for a lot less value,.

    I think Thomas will be a good value since he's better than he's showed IMO due to injuries. Watson might want more than he's worth, but the whole situation isn't worth worrying about.

    The position has been deemphasized in our offense, as you stated.
     
  13. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Tight end is a frustrating position. It seems that they can either block or catch but we can't find one who does both equally well and also has some speed. Watson's been inconsistent and Thomas can't get on the field. Seems like Ben Coates was our last good one.
     
  14. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That'd be good. It's all sort of hazy but didn't BB love TE's (probably for the reasons xmark mentioned) but we just haven't lucked out getting the best of production. It seems anyway:confused3:

    Kyle Brady was one I'd hoped would work out. Anyway if the draft's good for TE's hopefully we get ourselves one:) OT would be nice too.
     
  15. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Disagree.

    The Pats used two and three TE sets last season. And having two TEs who are both capable as blockers and receivers is EXACTLY what BB prefers. It gives the offense more flexibility to do different things. Keep in mind, that both Watson and Thomas have been injured from time to time, making it impossible to have them both on the field. When they are in the same series, they can both block, or one or the other can run routes. Keeps the defense guessing, as opposed to having a Hochstein report in as a TE (everyone knows he's going to block).

    Also, we're not a 1 TE or 2 TE offense -- we're a gameplan offense. The gameplan is to always be able to use different personnel combinations, and to be able to attack the defense's most vulnerable areas. Simply stated, if we don't have two reliable and capable TEs -- we're not able to attack that weakness vs that particular team.

    Of course we use different formations which don't employ two TE sets, but it's important to have the ability to do so within our many offensive options. It's called flexibility and balance.

    If BB thinks highly of Pettigrew, and he's there at #23, then he's a legitimate option. My preference is to wait till later to address the position. But my opinion and a nickel won't buy...
     
  16. memento

    memento On the Game Day Roster

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    the shotgun offense was a product of josh mcdaniels playcalling. if belichick is going to call the plays, expect more TE play and hope TFB is comfortable snapping under center again.

    a #1 TE with our first round pick would be a great decision to get back into the multiple TE sets, and going back to multiple TE sets after a couple years of shotty is just the kind of polar shift BB would do given the chance. Remember when we traded for Dillon and went from a passing offense to a running offense?

    I'm surprised so many people are calling for more draft picks in the defense. Not that our defense doesn't need more playmakers, but we've used first round picks on the defense for the last two years. We have meriweather at safety, mayo at ILB, and three young serviceable corners. Maybe we use #1 at corner, but that'd be out of character for BB.
     
  17. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree on Watson and Thomas. JAG players at this point. I have mentioned Gonzales. Some say at 96 receptions he is washed up. He has a CAP friendly three year remaining contract. Watson has improved his blocking and regressed in catching. Keep him as the blocking TE.

    I like this James Casey from Rice. 104 receptions last year. 6' 4" and 236 so he needs another ten pounds but I see him as a Dallas Clark type. He is older than some of these kids and mature (He was in the White Sox baseball system). He is supposedly very smart and versatile. He played some at "Wild Cat" QB. He even played Safety and DE at Rice so he can play ST as well.
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  18. FarScapeR

    FarScapeR On the Game Day Roster

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    Honestly, nobody's crying over tight-end production. Yes, Watson's crucial drops and Thomas' unfortunate penalty cost us a trip to the playoffs, but this offense hasn't suffered for lack of tight end production.

    I don't see us spending a first round pick on a TE this draft.
     
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