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Tiebreaker which gave Miami the division

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ALP, Jan 14, 2009.

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  1. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    sry to bring up old memories and old discussions, but was talking about this w/ someone, and i forgot which tiebraker was used to give miami the division, and why it was a stupid tiebraker to use

    thanks
  2. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    Conference record.

    They had identical common opponents records cause MIA lost to Arizona but beat San Diego.
  3. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    It came down to the 4th tiebreaker, which is record within the conference. If you look at who the teams beat and lost to, the difference was the Dolphins defeating San Diego, who beat the Pats.

    NFL Tie-Breaking Procedures

    1.) Head-to Head -- Tied 1-1
    2.) W-L in Division -- Pats 4-2, Dolphins 4-2
    3.) W-L in Common Games -- all games were common except for the Pats two versus #1 teams (Colts, Steelers) and the Dolphins versus #4 teams (Texans, Ravens.) Forget the debate whether playing each other is a 'common game' or not; it's irrelevant since it would end the tiebreaker back at rule #1, and if not, being 1-1 or 0-0 makes no difference.

    The Dolphins lost to both Baltimore and Houston, and the Pats lost to both Indy and Pittsburgh; their record against common opponents was an identical 11-3 (or 10-2, depending on your point of view.)

    4.) W-L in Conference Games -- Against the AFC West, Miami lost to Arizona in week 2, then beat Seattle by 2 in week 10, St Louis by 4 in week 13, and SF by 5 in week 15. That leaves a 8-4 record against AFC teams. The Pats swept the NFC West, leaving them with a 7-5 within the conference -- and Miami wins the tiebreaker.

    In the name of unbiased reporting and for those that look at the glass as half-empty, Miami beat San Diego - at home - and the Pats did not beat them - on the road - and that was the difference in the record against AFC teams between the Pats and the Dolphins.


    EDIT: as fnordcircle mentioned, had the Pats and Dolphins results against the Chargers and Cardinals - a net 1-1 won-loss record - been reversed (i.e., Pats beat San Diego but lose to Arizona, and Miami loses to San Diego but beats Arizona), then the division title and playoff berth are reversed.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  4. bizarroAndres

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    also, if they pats won more games or the dolphins won less games, we would have won the division. but that didnt happen
  5. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    It is also worth noting that the sun will come up tomorrow.
  6. cavtroop

    cavtroop Rookie

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    I heard the sky is blue, also.
  7. godef

    godef Rookie

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    I don't see how playing each other can be considered common opponents. The Pats played the DOLPHINS, whereas the Dolphins played the PATS. These are NOT common opponents. Now, if the Patrs played themselves, that would be another story.
  8. godef

    godef Rookie

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    Increasing darkness towards the evening.
  9. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    In the east too........
  10. Sicilian

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    Eh, doesn't really matter. If you've reached that tiebreaker, you automatically have a split of the games between you. If you didn't, the tie-breakers would have stopped at the first one (head-to-head).
  11. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Mood
    And Pennington still has a noodle arm. :rolleyes:
  12. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Conference tie-breaker makes no sense for teams in the same division.

    Miami lost to Arizona, New England lost to San Diego. Miami lost AT Arizona, New England lost AT San Diego. The scores were almost identical, the games were in the first part of the season. Why would one loss count more than the other? Makes no sense.

    They need to move another tie-breaker up to #4, maybe strength of victory or something like that.
  13. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    I would agree SoV is a better tiebreaker than Conf record for the division. BTW Miami would have won that one too.
  14. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    Exactly. If you're leaving it down to the 4th tie-breaker or lower, it's all basically a coin flip at that point anyway. Don't like the 4th tie-breaker? Beat the Dolphins twice and make it moot.
  15. Patsrock

    Patsrock Rookie

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    Don't give up 3 and 15. Don't drop an easy td reception. It is that simple.
  16. ALP

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    i see what ur saying...
  17. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Yadda Yadda Yadda

    Please stop the nonsense.

    We're talking about something else.

    Take the freakin' Patriots out of it.
  18. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    heh heh. it was kind of overstating the obvious, wasn't it?
  19. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Bull. The only reason you are talking about the tiebreaker is because the Pats didn't make the playoffs. We've had the same tiebreaker order for years and no one complained. And now you are trying to say it isn't just about the Pats.

    It is simply whining and crying. The rules are fair, they apply to everone equally, and everyone knew the tiebreakers beforehand.

    It is childish to complain now.
  20. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    God, your response is bull.

    No one complained because no one knows all the rules. I never even looked at the tiebreakers this closely. I'm sure I could find other things to complain about if I was actively going out of my way to do it.

    The point is, you can't justify conference record being there. The point is, something else makes infinitely more sense, like strength of victory. And guess what, the Patriots still don't make it in with that as the tiebreaker.

    Jeez, why are people so reactionary around here?
  21. Patsrock

    Patsrock Rookie

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    Why shouldn't conference record be there? You play in the same conference. I think the tiebreakers are fine the way they are.

    I would be more pissed if someone lost on strength of schedule. Which I will argue shouldn't even be a tiebreaker. You don't control your own schedule so that should be out.

    Strength of victory depends way too much on other teams. You winning a game hurts your own strength of victory.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  22. Patsrock

    Patsrock Rookie

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    Pats would have won the SOV tiebreaker.


    Pats wins 71-105
    Mia wins 70-106
  23. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    What does it matter what conference a team is in?

    Put it this way, we tied Miami on common opponents, and we had a lot of common opponents because 1/4 of our schedules were against the same NFC teams. Then we had the same exact AFC West schedule. only two games were different, and we did equally well in those games. So, they go through common opponents, that tie-breaker doesn't decide things, we both played San Diego, both played Arizona, that's a wash, according tot he common opponents tie-breaker.

    Then suddenly you have this arbitrary conference thing come in which values one game more than the other. With strength of victory, at least, it could differentiate between your common opponent based on record. Conference record completely ignores your opponent's record and only weighs what conference they are in.
  24. Patsrock

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    I could see your point if you don't play the same amount of conference games. I don't get your point of the conf record being arbitrary. What is arbitrary is SOV, what ever team played Detriot this year got 16 losses on their SOV this year.
  25. PatsFanSince74

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    definitely a conspiracy... :)

    can't we just give this up?
  26. godef

    godef Rookie

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    Re: tiebraker which gave miami the division

    Understood. I'm just stating I don't understand the confusion to start with.
  27. godef

    godef Rookie

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    What this causes is the worse team vs the other conference moving into the play-offs and then possibly representing the conference in the Super Bowl. Seems like a conference should be promoting the team that faired best against the opponent conference in the Super Bowl.
  28. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Right, but it doesn't happen in a vacuum. If you're in the same division as Detroit, everyone got fatter off them. It balances out. If your AFC division played Detroit, then everyone in your division also got fatter off Detroit, and the teams you played in the NFC North also got fatter. In other words, all of Detroit's losses also count as wins if you're playing teams in that division.

    The only teams hurt by playing Detroit when it comes to SOV are the two NFC teams that finished last the year before. Everyone else wasn't hurt at all by playing them since they played the same teams that Detroit lost to.
  29. SpiderFox53

    SpiderFox53 Rookie

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    I don't have a horse in this race, but as to the part in bold, as long as you mean 'only the last 7 years' then you would be correct. Otherwise you wouldn't be as the tie breakers were revised after the '01 season.
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