Through the quarter point, this is not a good team. How do they get better?

[PATSYLICIOUS]

There's obvious issues but I still think it's early. I'll worry if it's week eight/nine and our offense + run D is still in shambles. On the positives, the OL although not exactly what you want it to be was better last night than previous weeks and it was just the first start for two of the five, in a hostile environment. Lafell is establishing himself as a legit fourth or maybe even third option once Gronk is healthy. Browner will be back which hopefully means more press. No idea what Dennard's injury is but hopefully he's back soon as Ryan has sucked last couple weeks. It's not looking good right now but still too early to hit the panic button.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Forgot to mention, hard to disagree with any of the suggestions in the OP

 

[ausbacker]

@ausbacker's Crazy Close Out Everything Must Go Overreaction Sale But Not Really A Sale

Well well well. In my mind, some of this commentary makes sense, to others, it's probably lip service.

Preferred 4-3 starting Defense

Rob Ninkovich - Dominique Easley - Vince Wilfork - Chandler Jones

Dont'a Hightower - Jerod Mayo - Jamie Collins​

Darrelle Revis - Logan Ryan - Devin McCourty - Brandon Browner

Notes:

1. Revis and Browner play press man. Use zone coverage sparingly.
   
2. Piss off the 34 front. The Pats have 2 players suited to the 34 and both are Nose Tackles. The other 5 in the front 7 are more suited to the 43. We do not have the Defensive Ends to play a 34.
   
3. If teams are going to run on the Patriots then I want the team attacking the LOS. Enough read and react. That mentality isn't serving the Patriots well. It's time to force the issue and get aggressive on D. There is too much talent for this unit to be passive.
   
4. Get exotic BB and MP. You have the players. We can argue execution as much as we like but the simple fact is the Patriots are experiencing the same results with different players.
5. Logan Ryan appears to have a touch of the McCourty about him. Chung is abysmal. Chung has almost always been abysmal. If you're not going to put Harmon out there, Wilson needs to be cut and the Patriots should get creative next to McCourty. Too many picks are being wasted at Safety.
   
6. Over the past few seasons, players such as Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett and Michael Johnson have become available. Moving forward, the Patriots need a better approach to bolstering their DL because frankly, the rotation sucks.
   
7. I love Vince, but I'm not sure he's the answer moving forward. If Suh becomes available, pushing aside whatever our thoughts are of him as a dirty person, he, along with other players such as Bowers, Fairley, Rubin etc. should be given serious consideration.
8. Jones and Nink need a smack over the head. Their edge setting, in 2014, has been poor.
   
9. Despite their best attempts, the Patriots haven't replaced Dane Fletcher. This is a major oversight on their behalf.
   
10. There is no swag or attitude on D. The Super Bowl Patriots had swag. This team is full of choir boys. The D needs more on field jerks who are willing to throttle their opponents.
    
11. At the end of the season, the Patriots need to scour the market and improve their coaching ranks. It's time for a change at DC.

IMO, this should be the starting Offense:

Dobson - Gronkowski - Solder - Connolly - Stork - Incognito - Vollmer - Edelman

Brady
Develin
Ridley​

Notes:

1. Stork plays CE for the rest of the season.
   
2. Activate Dobson and play him. If he's not injured, I would rather suffer the Dobson growing pains than watch Danny Amendola get no separation and offer little come game day.
3. Formerly, I was an advocate of Amendola. It's time to move on from Danny Amendola. He's activated in the event of injury.
   
4. Ridley is the bellcow. Develin is an excellent FB. Play them both and pound the rock until the Patriots line stabilizes, Gronk returns to full health and the passing attack finds some resemblance of form.
   
5. Put Gronk on Solder's side and have him chip the OLB/DE on his way out. Solder's form in 2014 has been terrible. Give him some help until it's sorted.
6. If Develin comes off the field, LaFell is the first man up followed by Wright.
7. I like Shane Vereen but it's obvious he shouldn't be running on early downs and should be used as intended: a 3rd down back with pass catching ability to create mismatches.
8. The Patriots are not creating mismatches with scheme or personnel. Push aside the OL, this is a McDaniels/Belichick thing.
   
9. In the past, the Patriots have toyed with Waters and Gallery at Guard. The line has lost its toughness since trading Mankins. Incognito is a one year stop gap with the express instruction to get some aggressiveness back into the line. Fleming may be a good player in the long run, but right now, he's not starter ready.
10. At some point this season, I want to see a pass catching brigade 2TE, 3WR set of Gronkowski, Wright, Dobson, Edelman and LaFell. This is an incredibly athletic mix of players capable of creating separation. If Brady can't hit one of these guys, the problem is still the OL or Brady.
11. At the end of the season, the Patriots need to scour the market and improve their coaching ranks. It's time for a change at OC.

Underlying Thoughts

1. The Patriots are far too predictable. There is no magic about the Patriots on either side of the ball. What compounds that is the Patriots, in 2014, don't appear to be an aggressive team. There is nothing that says, we're going to do this and you can't stop us on either side of the ball.
2. The Patriots coaching staff has been deplorable this season.
3. The Patriots coaching staff are not putting the players in positions to succeed.
4. We laughed at the Bucs for using Revis, the best cover corner in the game, in this fashion. What a waste BB/MP.
   
5. In my opinion, a lot of the Patriots issues are mental, self inflicted and correctable.
6. At this stage of the season, the Patriots do not appear to be a Super Bowl threat.
7. I'll keep watching every week because I know the talent on this team is better than what they've served up however, if they continue to serve up these performances, the Patriots won't be a double digit win team and they will be in serious jeopardy of missing the playoffs.

Go Pats.

 

[Joey007]

I think we have one hope offensively. Dobson and Thompkins, hell Tyms, somebody's gotta step up and stretch the field for us. I think the O line issues actually may be fixable as well as the defensive struggles. But until we get guys that can make plays 15 yards+ down the field- we aren't going anywhere.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Great post Ausbacker.

To be honest I'm just dumbfounded how bad the use of personal and play calling has been. I'm not sure if there is some divine plan in place by BB or if he just lost his mind. The whole nfl world is questioning the Pats and their coach. QB included.


Not really happy like everyone else about last night. Why Ridley is not the bell cow amazes me.

The use of the cornerbacks needs to change. More press please. Playing off the ball 10 yards is just pink passive. I've grown to hate BB/Patricia schemes.

The play calling needs to change. I agree with the op that a more aggressive approach offensively and defensively needs to get ramped up. To me the personal is suited to a 4-3 and should be able to run some sort of 2-5.

Not sure how a high percentage of passing downs were 3 wide receiver sets and you only dress 3 wrs? I'd like to to Dobson suite up. Maybe even Tyms. I don't have the same intel as the coaches so maybe there is something else going on there.

There is a time and place for Vereen and last night he was just used wrong. You need to take advantage against teams that are weak against the run like KC had proved. Ridley had a few runs of 6 yards or more. Then you just stop using him? Later on in the game James White comes in and garbage time and starts running effectively? What are you watching Josh?

And lastly I'd like to see some more accountability from these coaches. BB has brought more to this franchise than any other coach in Pats history. I feel I owe him a lot of allegiance. However lately I have felt a little upset. I just feel like someone like McDaniels or Patricia can call a bad game and nothing can be done to them. If your a player and you continually do not perform you are cut/released/traded for what BB says is what's best for the football team. Is it not the same for coaches?

To be honest they have been so successful that many of us don't know how to react properly to some of the hoopla going on around here. We are spoiled and don't want the dynasty to end. We want to see Brady go out with one more ring. I still think it can happen but there would have to be a drastic turn around on a few levels.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Chung had a bad game...but entire D did. Chung played very well vs OAK

 

[SammyBlueCat]

There are some really good posts in this thread. I think the answer is really simple: BLOCKING AND TACKLING...

 

[ausbacker]

Chung had a bad game...but entire D did. Chung played very well vs OAK

Who doesn't play well against Oakland? The Fins put up over 30 on them.

I hated the Chung signing when it was made and I still hate the Chung signing.

Pushing aside Chung, Josh McDaniels really needs to be questioned. Under his watch, some of his former players brought in off the top of my head include Brandon Lloyd, Danny Amendola, Michael Hoomanawanui. It may be a stretch but BB may need to stop listening to his personnel advice.

 

[juny]

I hated the Chung signing when it was made and I still hate the Chung signing.

It's a shame he was signed to make up for 2 wasted high picks in Wilson (2nd) and Harmon (3rd).
Wilson has to be hands down the worst draft pick in BB's history.

 

[ausbacker]

It's a shame he was signed to make up for 2 wasted high picks in Wilson (2nd) and Harmon (3rd).
Wilson has to be hands down the worst draft pick in BB's history.

Yeah, as much as the Patriots draft well they've had some horrible misses in recent memory. Dowling and Mallett are complete busts in the 2011 Draft especially when you consider the players who were drafted near their positions.

 

[ATippett56]

How do they get better?

Thru the 2015 NFL Draft. It's time to retool the offensive and defensive lines with premium draft selections.

 

[Froob]

Chung had a bad game...but entire D did. Chung played very well vs OAK

I really wish we could find a way to get Slater out there for some plays. He's such an excellent tackler. He probably doesn't have any defensive back skills. But he's such a smart guy I wonder if it was ever really tested. I know they listed him as a WR/Safety coming into the league.

 

[juny]

How do they get better?

Thru the 2015 NFL Draft. It's time to retool the offensive and defensive lines with premium draft selections.

Unfortunately Brady doesn't have time to wait for 2015 players to develop.

 

[ATippett56]

Unfortunately Brady doesn't have time to wait for 2015 players to develop.

However, Bill Belichick saved a pile of money switching to Devey.

 

[Patriot Missile]

How do they get better?

Thru the 2015 NFL Draft. It's time to retool the offensive and defensive lines with premium draft selections.

Cowboys seem to have fixed a lot of their troubles through the draft. Tyron Smith although good, wasn't enough to keep Romo protected. So they drafted Travis Frederick in 2013 as their center and Zach Martin to guard in 2014. They finally did it right and now Murray and Romo have shut the haters up.

 

[woolster22]

The quickest way to a turn around I can see us two new coordinators. The personnel decisions and play calling by both have been embarrassing.

Ausbacker sold me on Patricia being in over his head (although it has looked like a hybrid front to me most the time. Still don't understand why Jones and Collins are trusted to protect the same side against the run though...)

McDaniels is an utter fool. The sooner he is gone the better. Bill would be better off setting up a play call and personnel dart board, dragging a drunk fan out of the stands and handing him the Mic. Vereen is not a between the tackles runner. Hell, yesterday he wasn't even an open field runner. Slowing down on the one big play he made all night cost him ten yards. Lol. But hey, McDowns can use him to trick the opposing dc! He won't know whether to expect a limp **** rushing attempt or a hesitant receiving attempt. If I see another lame ass split rb motion back to the backfield after being singled up outside with a LB, I will lose my mind. "Hey Tom, we're expecting a mismatch here, but your going to go ahead and neutralise that mismatch with some motion to get the defense to declare coverage so you can chuck it to a double covered Gronk/Edes. We'll just leave Lafell alone on that side as a decoy." SMFH

Did he miss the clinic on helping a line to get into a rhythm? "So the patriots defense has forced a punt. Luckily for (opponents name here) the patriots are going to run three sneaky pass plays and end up pointing it right back." "Yup, the McDaniels really is a genius. How can anybody point out production from the run game if he doesn't commit to it? Real advanced thinking there."

 

[ausbacker]

The quickest way to a turn around I can see us two new coordinators. The personnel decisions and play calling by both have been embarrassing.

Ausbacker sold me on Patricia being in over his head (although it has looked like a hybrid front to me most the time. Still don't understand why Jones and Collins are trusted to protect the same side against the run though...)

McDaniels is an utter fool. The sooner he is gone the better. Bill would be better off setting up a play call and personnel dart board, dragging a drunk fan out of the stands and handing him the Mic. Vereen is not a between the tackles runner. Hell, yesterday he wasn't even an open field runner. Slowing down on the one big play he made all night cost him ten yards. Lol. But hey, McDowns can use him to trick the opposing dc! He won't know whether to expect a limp **** rushing attempt or a hesitant receiving attempt. If I see another lame ass split rb motion back to the backfield after being singled up outside with a LB, I will lose my mind. "Hey Tom, we're expecting a mismatch here, but your going to go ahead and neutralise that mismatch with some motion to get the defense to declare coverage so you can chuck it to a double covered Gronk/Edes. We'll just leave Lafell alone on that side as a decoy." SMFH

Did he miss the clinic on helping a line to get into a rhythm? "So the patriots defense has forced a punt. Luckily for (opponents name here) the patriots are going to run three sneaky pass plays and end up pointing it right back." "Yup, the McDaniels really is a genius. How can anybody point out production from the run game if he doesn't commit to it? Real advanced thinking there."

Regarding the bolded comment @woolster22, the Pats are definitely playing a 34 front with similar assignments to the 43 (you're right that they are mixing it up in a hybrid sense of the manner) however, for one reason or another, it simply isn't working. You can flip a coin between player discipline and coaching but the Patriots need to get simple on both sides of the ball.

Too often were Patriots players caught out of position or unaware who their direct match-ups were. KC killed the D out of the bunch formation. To me, that suggest poor coaching the players didn't identify their match-ups correctly and/or didn't hand off their assignment to another.

The team isn't working well together at all.

 

[KA-]

- Win your home games

- Get Dobson/Thompkins back

- Let that offensive line unit from last night continue to mesh

- Control the clock with a run game (feed Ridley the ball, he ran for 1263 yards and 12 TDs in 2012)

- Run some play action

- Get Revis and Browner on the line making the opposing WRs work

- Force turnovers

 

[supafly]

It's a shame he was signed to make up for 2 wasted high picks in Wilson (2nd) and Harmon (3rd).
Wilson has to be hands down the worst draft pick in BB's history.

Shoot...this is highly debatable, but I don't even think that Tavon Wilson is in the top 5--yet.

Ron Brace as a very high 2nd round pick was absurd. Terrance Wheatley in the 2nd. Darius Butler in the 2nd. Jermaine Cunnigham in the 2nd. Pat Chung in the 2nd. Dowling in the high 2nd round at #33.

Bequette in the 3rd. Mallett in the 3rd. Harmon in the 3rd. Tate in the 3rd. Price in the 3rd. Crable in the 3rd. McKenzie in the 3rd. Kevin O'Connell in the 3rd (lasted ONE year).

 

[ATippett56]

Shoot...this is highly debatable, but I don't even think that Tavon Wilson is in the top 5--yet.

Ron Brace as a very high 2nd round pick was absurd. Terrance Wheatley in the 2nd. Darius Butler in the 2nd. Jermaine Cunnigham in the 2nd. Pat Chung in the 2nd. Dowling in the high 2nd round at #33.

Bequette in the 3rd. Mallett in the 3rd. Harmon in the 3rd. Tate in the 3rd. Price in the 3rd. Crable in the 3rd. McKenzie in the 3rd.

You forgot the immortal Kevin O'Connell, one year backup extraordinaire.