Thoughts on Sintim playing ILB?

[midwestpatsfan]

Sorry if this is intermingled in another thread, but I did not see it really out there. If so, I apologize. I was wondering what you guys thought of Sintim moving inside? I just think from what I have seen and read, this might be a good possiblity for him and he would be a 3 down linebacker.

Thoughts?

 

[dryheat44]

Sorry if this is intermingled in another thread, but I did not see it really out there. If so, I apologize. I was wondering what you guys thought of Sintim moving inside? I just think from what I have seen and read, this might be a good possiblity for him and he would be a 3 down linebacker.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't do it unless we had a significant hole to fill intside, or he couldn't get the job done outside.

 

[WhiZa]

He has the size to play ILB, but you'd lose out on what his strengths are (getting to the passer). It could be one of those things where you start him at OLB and move around as he matures through the years. A lot like how Vrabel and AD were brought up. The question is, is he up for it?

 

[AzPatsFan]

I wouldn't do it unless we had a significant hole to fill intside, or he couldn't get the job done outside.

There were only three ILbs of the size and experience needed to play the position in the Pats 3-4 version. There are almost a dozen OLB candidates.

In the order I liked them Laurnaitis by a country mile, followed by Sintim and Mauluga bringing up the rear. Rey has subsequently fallen with his poor Wonderlic. The position in addition requires a pretty smart and perceptive play caller as the "mike". An unrecognized need is to diagnose and call adjustments prior to the snap. I doubt that Mauluga is up to it. I think he is a two-down ILB and only better than Jasper Brinkely, who can be had, 3rd round on. The runstuffer ILB is going the way of the dodo like the FB position. TJ theultimate runstuffer was only a parttime player with BB from 2003 onward. He preferred Phife instead, an all around ILB, but not as good as Lauranitis who his game resembles.

People criticize Lauranitis for not shedding superbly only fairly well, and making the tackle. Baloney. He had 363 tackles in his career, he must be doing something right. He can pass cover and make INTs. He holds more, 9 INTs a fantastic number, for a DB, never mind a LB. That is more than first round "playmaker" DB Vontae Davis (7) had in his career, and more than double what Mauluga got (4).

He can ILB blitz. Mauluga did little of that and Sintim's experience is OLB blitzing which is completely a different technique. Outside, one needs to get bye a tackle and bend-in in a foot race. I think Sintim could adapt after a while, but no guessing how good he could become at it.

The ILB technique is usually a delayed blitz, avoiding or sliding by everyone in a direct shot to close the pocket and charge right in. More like a penetrating defensive tackle does, like a John Randle or need a I say the all time NCAA sacker from DT, not DE, Tedy Bruschi. Occasionally it is a direct penetration into a hole created by a pulling lineman. With the unexpectedness contributing as the blitz-pickup RB is tied up with helping an outside defender, or is on the wrong side and out of position. Neither Sintim nor Mauluga exceed Laurnaitis ILB blitz sacks or tackles for loss, that come from pre-snap diagnosis, and smart instincts.

Take the rarer ILB first and the more plentiful OLB, second, 23, 34.

 

[cstjohn17]

More like a penetrating defensive tackle does, like a John Randle or need a I say the all time NCAA sacker from DT, not DE, Tedy Bruschi. Occasionally it is a direct penetration into a hole created by a pulling lineman.

I have seen this written by a young Mr. DryHeat. Is there any documented proof that Bruschi played DT? I am not 100% sold.

 

[BlackFrancis]

There were only three ILbs of the size and experience needed to play the position in the Pats 3-4 version. There are almost a dozen OLB candidates.

In the order I liked them Laurnaitis by a country mile, followed by Sintim and Mauluga bringing up the rear. Rey has subsequently fallen with his poor Wonderlic. The position in addition requires a pretty smart and perceptive play caller as the "mike". An unrecognized need is to diagnose and call adjustments prior to the snap. I doubt that Mauluga is up to it. I think he is a two-down ILB and only better than Jasper Brinkely, who can be had, 3rd round on. The runstuffer ILB is going the way of the dodo like the FB position. TJ theultimate runstuffer was only a parttime player with BB from 2003 onward. He preferred Phife instead, an all around ILB, but not as good as Lauranitis who his game resembles.

People criticize Lauranitis for not shedding superbly only fairly well, and making the tackle. Baloney. He had 363 tackles in his career, he must be doing something right. He can pass cover and make INTs. He holds more, 9 INTs a fantastic number, for a DB, never mind a LB. That is more than first round "playmaker" DB Vontae Davis (7) had in his career, and more than double what Mauluga got (4).

He can ILB blitz. Mauluga did little of that and Sintim's experience is OLB blitzing which is completely a different technique. Outside, one needs to get bye a tackle and bend-in in a foot race. I think Sintim could adapt after a while, but no guessing how good he could become at it.

The ILB technique is usually a delayed blitz, avoiding or sliding by everyone in a direct shot to close the pocket and charge right in. More like a penetrating defensive tackle does, like a John Randle or need a I say the all time NCAA sacker from DT, not DE, Tedy Bruschi. Occasionally it is a direct penetration into a hole created by a pulling lineman. With the unexpectedness contributing as the blitz-pickup RB is tied up with helping an outside defender, or is on the wrong side and out of position. Neither Sintim nor Mauluga exceed Laurnaitis ILB blitz sacks or tackles for loss, that come from pre-snap diagnosis, and smart instincts.

Take the rarer ILB first and the more plentiful OLB, second, 23, 34.

That is a great case for Laurinaitis. His stock is suffering this season much like Maualuga's. If either of them had declared following their monster bowl games in 2008, they are easily top 15 picks in the 2008 Draft.

Folks forget Laurinaitis dragging Hester down all over the place during the BCS Championship game in 2008. Hester ran wild all over Mayo and Ayers during LSU's game prior to the matchup with Ohio State. Now, I was far too drunk to remember if Laurinaitis actually shed any blocks from LSU's guards during that game but surely it occurred at least once before one of his 18 tackles that night.

 

[BlackFrancis]

I have seen this written by a young Mr. DryHeat. Is there any documented proof that Bruschi played DT? I am not 100% sold.

Joe Salave'a and Chuck Osborne were the defensive tackles at Arizona when Tedy was a senior. Jim Hoffman and Rob Waldrop were the tackles during his junior season.

 

[dryheat44]

Joe Salave'a and Chuck Osborne were the defensive tackles at Arizona when Tedy was a senior. Jim Hoffman and Rob Waldrop were the tackles during his junior season.

Tedy was used inside and outside depending on defensive package.

 

[DW Toys]

There were only three ILbs of the size and experience needed to play the position in the Pats 3-4 version. There are almost a dozen OLB candidates.

In the order I liked them Laurnaitis by a country mile, followed by Sintim and Mauluga bringing up the rear. Rey has subsequently fallen with his poor Wonderlic. The position in addition requires a pretty smart and perceptive play caller as the "mike". An unrecognized need is to diagnose and call adjustments prior to the snap. I doubt that Mauluga is up to it. I think he is a two-down ILB and only better than Jasper Brinkely, who can be had, 3rd round on. The runstuffer ILB is going the way of the dodo like the FB position. TJ theultimate runstuffer was only a parttime player with BB from 2003 onward. He preferred Phife instead, an all around ILB, but not as good as Lauranitis who his game resembles.

People criticize Lauranitis for not shedding superbly only fairly well, and making the tackle. Baloney. He had 363 tackles in his career, he must be doing something right. He can pass cover and make INTs. He holds more, 9 INTs a fantastic number, for a DB, never mind a LB. That is more than first round "playmaker" DB Vontae Davis (7) had in his career, and more than double what Mauluga got (4).

He can ILB blitz. Mauluga did little of that and Sintim's experience is OLB blitzing which is completely a different technique. Outside, one needs to get bye a tackle and bend-in in a foot race. I think Sintim could adapt after a while, but no guessing how good he could become at it.

The ILB technique is usually a delayed blitz, avoiding or sliding by everyone in a direct shot to close the pocket and charge right in. More like a penetrating defensive tackle does, like a John Randle or need a I say the all time NCAA sacker from DT, not DE, Tedy Bruschi. Occasionally it is a direct penetration into a hole created by a pulling lineman. With the unexpectedness contributing as the blitz-pickup RB is tied up with helping an outside defender, or is on the wrong side and out of position. Neither Sintim nor Mauluga exceed Laurnaitis ILB blitz sacks or tackles for loss, that come from pre-snap diagnosis, and smart instincts.

Take the rarer ILB first and the more plentiful OLB, second, 23, 34.

Great points. You commented on a few things I would like to mention. I think that Brinkley is the ILB sleeper here. Until he got an ACL at the end of 2007, he was considered a first day pick. He did not get back to form until the end of 2008. He played at 262 at South Carolina against the top SEC competition.His combine and pro day were spectacular. In coverage drills he was fluid and smooth. His 40 time was that of our starting Safety and his 3 cone (a BB favorite) was better than half the RBs in this draft. He had 26 reps, 36" vertical and a 6.92-3 cone. I am thinking #58 or #89. Save the first three picks for other needs.

Another ILB steal might be Paul Kruger. He would follow the path of Teddy from DE to ILB. He is 6' 3" and 265 with 4.79 speed and decent coverage skills but the blitzing factor is his best suite.

The last alternative I will mention is Mike Rivera of KU. 6' 2" 245. 6.67 3-CONE !!!!, 38.5 vertical and 4.63 40.
DW Toys

 

[BlackFrancis]

Tedy was used inside and outside depending on defensive package.

I'm not sure if this is true or not but I think a lot of the confusion about Bruschi's position at Arizona was due to the way Tomey draws up the Double Eagle Flex defense. The defense sometimes notates a nose tackle with two flanking "tackles" on either side. In most of the packages for those defenses one of the ends/tackles has a LB/DE hybrid playing on the line outside them, either over the tackle or outside the tackle. In others, one or two of the ends or tackles are off the line in a flex position. So, it could appear that Tedy was lined up as a DT in a lot of Arizona's defensive formations.

I think when you take both Tomey's designations and the way the defensive front actually lined up, it is easy to say Bruschi was a DT. In reality, though, the only true "tackle" on that defense was the NT.

For a recent history example of what I'm talking about, take a look at some videos of Jarron Gilbert at SJSU. Tomey runs a similar defense there and routinely has Justin Cole, Carl Ihenacho or Mohamed Marah outside of Gilbert and in a three point stance. Those guys are DE/LB hybrids that are lined up as WHIP or STUD - sometimes on the line in a three point stance, sometimes off the line in a flex position.

It is a pretty odd defense and it doesn't help that different folks call the line positions with different designations. The fact it is so hard to tell who the hell is playing which position is kind of a calling card for the Double Eagle Flex defense. Again, watch some of the SJSU video. Trying to figure out who is a linebacker, end, tackle or safety is almost an exercise in futility.

 

[BradyManny]

He has the size to play ILB, but you'd lose out on what his strengths are (getting to the passer). It could be one of those things where you start him at OLB and move around as he matures through the years. A lot like how Vrabel and AD were brought up. The question is, is he up for it?

I haven't seen Sintim enough to justify how high I am on him, but he looks like he could be similar to AD but without as good coverage skills and quickness. Sintim's best trait is probably that his pass rushing ability isn't a function of blazing speed on the edge, he actually has some technique. Therefore, you could have Sintim rushing from the SILB spot and doing damage, whereas a lot of other pass rushers need that space on the edge to get to the QB. Sure, it's just as much conjecture as projecting a DE to the OLB position.

 

[patchick]

For a recent history example of what I'm talking about, take a look at some videos of Jarron Gilbert at SJSU. Tomey runs a similar defense there and routinely has Justin Cole, Carl Ihenacho or Mohamed Marah outside of Gilbert and in a three point stance. Those guys are DE/LB hybrids that are lined up as WHIP or STUD - sometimes on the line in a three point stance, sometimes off the line in a flex position.

It is a pretty odd defense and it doesn't help that different folks call the line positions with different designations. The fact it is so hard to tell who the hell is playing which position is kind of a calling card for the Double Eagle Flex defense. Again, watch some of the SJSU video. Trying to figure out who is a linebacker, end, tackle or safety is almost an exercise in futility.

Useful post, thanks. I had been tying my brain in knots watching SJSU video recently.

At the risk of hijacking this already wayward thread, any thoughts on the implications for Gilbert?

 

[BlackFrancis]

Useful post, thanks. I had been tying my brain in knots watching SJSU video recently.

At the risk of hijacking this already wayward thread, any thoughts on the implications for Gilbert?

With Gilbert, if I'm running a 4-3 and envisioning him as a UT, I don't question Gilbert's ability to play the scheme. If I am running a one gap 3-4, like Pittsburgh, I am all over Gilbert as a end. For the Patriots, his college career consists of a load of tape that isn't particularly useful. He's got the size and he's awfully strong, so he might be able to play 2 gap, 5 technique but you just don't have the game tape evidence showing him controlling 2 gaps. The Double Eagle Flex gives 2 gap responsibility to six different players.