Thoughts on safeties Chung, Moore and Delmas

[Patriot Missile]

Just adding that this makes me very happy that they are bringing in my 3 favorite safeties. One question though. Sean Smith? I'm pretty sure they interviewed him already, did they bring him in for a workout too? In the back of mind he could also be a big target if the term "smoke screen" come to play here.

 

[mayoclinic]

To broaden the scope a bit, here's a nice piece today on Chip Vaughn from Wake Forest:

http://profootball.scout.com/2/851309.html

He'd be a nice SS pickup. The problem I see is that I see him going in the early 3rd round, later than #58 but higher than #89.

(In case anyone wonders, I don't know why my links don't show up as hyperlinks anymore. The used to, and I haven't changed anything that I'm aware of.)

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Patrick Chung any relation to the infamous first rounder of the Pats 2 decades ago - Eugene Chung?

I hope not

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I just want them to draft a safety within the first three rounds. The only players that I have seen every week is USC players. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

http://profootball.scout.com/2/851309.html

(In case anyone wonders, I don't know why my links don't show up as hyperlinks anymore. The used to, and I haven't changed anything that I'm aware of.)

Don't worry about the text color, just type [] with url between them at the start, then type [] with /url between them at the end.

http://profootball.scout.com/2/851309.html

 

[mayoclinic]

Russ Lande from The Sporting News has just posted his top 10 safety list:

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NFL Football stats, scores, standings, blogs and fantasy news from NFL Football columnists

It's a bit of a puzzler. Louis Delmas is #1, but he has William Moore and Patrick Chung rated #7 and #9. His order:

1. Delmas
2. Darcel McBath, Texas Tech - anyone know anything about him?
3. Derek Pegues
4. Emmanuel Cook
5. Lardarius Webb - I like Webb, but the #5 safety at 5'9" 179#?
6. Chip Vaughn
7. Moore
8. Rashad Johnson
9. Chung
10. Chris Clemons

Very strange list.

 

[Seneschal2]

Very strange list.

Lande is one of my least favorite analysts. Some of his profiles border on absurd.

 

[BelichickFan]

Russ Lande from The Sporting News has just posted his top 10 safety list:

Russ Lande is consistently - bizarre - unless you considered Beau Bell to be a sure fire #1 pick this time last year.

I have the Sporting News magazine and it also has the same Safeties high so Lande may have had a strong hand there but the rest of their rankings aren't weird at all (in the magazine, don't know about Lande himself).

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

That list is brutal. It reads more like a Letterman Top 10 list than a "Top Safeties, NFL Draft 2009."

I think it's a virtual certainty that the Patriots will get a valuable safety if they so choose. Between Delmas, Chung, Vaughn, Moore, Rashad Johnson, and others I have omitted, there is a lot of talent.

I am a little skeptical of Moore because he slipped so much after his big 07, but if they took him I would be encouraged that they thought his slide an aberration. I like Chung and Delmas a lot--the floor that MayoClinic has for Delmas, Michael Griffin, is a pretty outstanding floor. That's like, varnished hardwood floor quality. Griffin was the guy I coveted the year the Pats took Meriweather (who I am a big fan of). Chung is athletic, and I like that he's a hard-worker, a tackler and a potential special teams demon.

Vaughn is an intriguing candidate, especially with his size, but it seems to me the Pats have shied away from taking the oversized d-backs over the years. Perhaps Vaughn is simply a good prospect who has great size, in which case I'd be happy.

The safeties are far more intriguing to me than the corners. I am more interested in seeing that area of the team addressed.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

NFL Blog | Sports News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News

Sleeper: Akron KR Bryan Williams
7:45 AM Sun, Mar 29, 2009
Rick Gosselin

High school football in Akron was a bastion for running backs in 2004. Tyrell Sutton rushed for 3,241 yards and 38 touchdowns at Archbishop Hoban, Beanie Wells ran for 1,939 yards and 20 touchdowns at Garfield, and Bryan Williams 1,831 yards and 26 touchdowns at Buchtel...Now all three are on the 2009 draft board...Williams never made it to Pitt. He wound up spending two seasons at Valley Forge Military Academy before enrolling at Akron. He rushed for 728 yards as a junior, then switched over to safety as a senior. He made 64 tackles and intercepted a pass. But his value in this draft is as a kick returner...Williams set a school-record with his 31.9-yard kickoff return average in 2007, finishing second in the nation...Teams kicked away from him in 2008 but he still finished sixth in the NCAA with a 29-yard average....His versatility on offense, defense and special teams gives him draft value.

 

[bakes781]

Louis Delmas is clearly #1 so he'd be a good value if he's there at #34.

To me there isn't much of a drop off with Chip Vaughn and he'd be very good value at #58.

Both are versatile players and I wouldn't mind having both!

 

[WhiZa]

Any thoughts on Chris Clemons? He seems big and fast with tons of production. They are saying he's a FS, but with around 100 tackles 3 years in a row I would consider him pretty strong.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I am pretty sure that Nic Harris is not on their board ... way too slow for Safety.

I think the Pats will play this similar to the way they did when they drafted Eugene Wilsion. They will vertically stack these Safeties they have on their board, and will trade up or down to pick the one they want. This isn't saying they will take one at 34, 47 or 58, just that they will get one at some point in the 2nd round.

I actually think they may take two, I like Chip Vaughn as well.

So do I. Safety is where you need to have superior ball skills as it is an turnoiver and INT position. A Safety without ball skills, is a waste of food. Trumped only by a Safety who can't tackle. As BB said, "Don't give me a defensive player who can't tackle. What would I do with him."

None of these Safeties in question, is a sure star, or they would be First rounders. None are. Bujt i downgrade Bruton for stone hands and Smith for tackling.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Any thoughts on Chris Clemons? He seems big and fast with tons of production. They are saying he's a FS, but with around 100 tackles 3 years in a row I would consider him pretty strong.

Big and fast √, productive √, change of direction numbers... :ugh:

 

[dryheat44]

Nobody mentions Hamlin yet?

The DH Safety stack (keeping in mind that we're really looking for an in-the-box type)

#1 Chung
#2 (or maybe 1a) Delmas
#3 Moore
#4 Hamlin
#5 Bruton
#6 Vaughn
#7 Casillas

That's about four rounds worth. I think #1-4 could start for us by the end of the year. There's a truckload of sleeper types in the 5-UDFA range.

 

[captain stone]

Nobody mentions Hamlin yet?
I like him too, but I like Vaughn a little more.

The DH Safety stack (keeping in mind that we're really looking for an in-the-box type)
At least, we should be looking at those types.

#1 Chung
#2 (or maybe 1a) Delmas
#3 Moore
#4 Hamlin
#5 Bruton
#6 Vaughn
#7 Casillas

If we didn't already have Meriweather, then I would be more exited about Delmas.

However, I fear that a Delmas-Meriweather tandem would only be slightly more intimidating than a lil' Jimmy Sanders-Meriweather tandem, which is poss. the least intimidating S tandem w/ the worst ball skills in football.

Maybe because I've been used to seeing either Milloy or Rodney at SS for the last dozen years, I just would feel more confident having a SS who's actually, you know, strong - which, BTW, Delmas is not. I won't even mention his Wonderlic.

I mean, can anyone say with a high (as in, # 23 or 34 overall) degree of certainty that Delmas can consistently defend an NFL running game, or shed 2nd-level blocking to find, and tackle, the ball-carrier? Or cover a TE & RB after they've left the coverage areas of the LBs? We've only had that last problem since 2005, the year after our last SB, not so coincidentally.

Sorry, but I am firmly not on the Louis Delmas as SS of the NEP bandwagon. I would rather wait until #47 for Chung, or #58 for Will Moore /Chip Vaughn, or #89/97 for Mike Hamlin /David Bruton.

 

[Gator Mike]

Chung is my binky, as well.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Nobody mentions Hamlin yet?

The DH Safety stack (keeping in mind that we're really looking for an in-the-box type)

#1 Chung
#2 (or maybe 1a) Delmas
#3 Moore
#4 Hamlin
#5 Bruton
#6 Vaughn
#7 Casillas

That's about four rounds worth. I think #1-4 could start for us by the end of the year. There's a truckload of sleeper types in the 5-UDFA range.

What is your opinion on Sean Smith as a safety you do you see him more as a corner. I think BB might give old Weis a call about Bruton and he was the only player on defence who stood out all last season. Rashad Johnson would be a nice pickup if he slips down to the third and I like the other Safety or SS at Clemson Chris Clemons who has a great blend of size and speed.

 

[mayoclinic]

If we didn't already have Meriweather, then I would be more exited about Delmas.

However, I fear that a Delmas-Meriweather tandem would only be slightly more intimidating than a lil' Jimmy Sanders-Meriweather tandem, which is poss. the least intimidating S tandem w/ the worst ball skills in football.

Maybe because I've been used to seeing either Milloy or Rodney at SS for the last dozen years, I just would feel more confident having a SS who's actually, you know, strong - which, BTW, Delmas is not. I won't even mention his Wonderlic.

I mean, can anyone say with a high (as in, # 23 or 34 overall) degree of certainty that Delmas can consistently defend an NFL running game, or shed 2nd-level blocking to find, and tackle, the ball-carrier? Or cover a TE & RB after they've left the coverage areas of the LBs? We've only had that last problem since 2005, the year after our last SB, not so coincidentally.

Sorry, but I am firmly not on the Louis Delmas as SS of the NEP bandwagon. I would rather wait until #47 for Chung, or #58 for Will Moore /Chip Vaughn, or #89/97 for Mike Hamlin /David Bruton.

Wow, that's a pretty scathing indictment both of Delmas and of the Pats current safeties. I appreciate your clarity in outlining your concerns, but I'm not sure I agree on either front.

You call Sanders-Meriweather possibly the "least intimidating intimidating S tandem w/ the worst ball skills in football." That seems a little harsh. Sanders is an adequate starter, no more, but he is a solid kid and a good leader and team player. BB obviously values him. Meriweather has shown that he is developing very nicely on both the intimidation and ball skills fronts. He had 4 ints last season and showed nicely developing hands, and he showed excellent blitzing ability. While there is obviously room for improvement (hence the need for a future starting S opposite Meriweather), I'm not sure I would rank them at the bottom of the NFL heap by any means.

Regarding Delmas, there are some potential areas of concern which you correctly identify. He put up 12 reps on the bench press at the combine (Meriweather did 11 in 2007) so he's not the strongest guy in the world, if you believe the bench press corresponds to functional strength. Certainly you can find stronger SS types (Moore, Chung, Vaughn) if you want more of a pure SS. Second, he did score a 12 on the wonderlic. That may be a concern or it may not; it has been discussed quite a bit. I don't put too much in store by it, as Delmas as shown good football smarts and leadership skills. Third, Delmas has shown that he sometimes overcommits and can give up a big play (as happened a couple of times with James Casey from Rice in their bowl game). Again, if you want an in the box SS to defend the run you can probably do better.

But for the total package of the hyrbid SS/FS with ball skills, coverage ability, hitting initimidation and blitzing ability, I don't see a better package out there. None of the prospects are sure things that they can "consistently defend an NFL running game". He has better ball skills and coverage ability than either Chung or Moore, and better hitting ability and run coverage than Sean Smith. Belichick talked extensively at the combine about valuing the hybrid SS/FS who can cover as well as play at the line, and I think Delmas offers an overall package which is at least comparable to Kenny Phillips and Michael Griffin.

 

[patsfan13]

What is your opinion on Sean Smith as a safety you do you see him more as a corner. I think BB might give old Weis a call about Bruton and he was the only player on defence who stood out all last season. Rashad Johnson would be a nice pickup if he slips down to the third and I like the other Safety or SS at Clemson Chris Clemons who has a great blend of size and speed.

I really like Smith he has better ball skills and size than the guys who played S in college, He has the size at 6'4", 214.

With the number of teams featuring 4-5 WR formations guys like Smith and Springs provide the need2 bits.ed flexibility. IMO this was the thought behind Meriweather getting drafted a guy who can play safety and has coverage skills. Most of the Safeties mentioned here don't have the cover skills of a guy like Smith, just my