Thoughts on safeties Chung, Moore and Delmas

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by carolinatony, Mar 28, 2009.

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  1. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

    I hope we grab one of these 3 in the first two rounds, Anyone have a favorite
    and are they all worth a pick early?

    Per Boston Globe

    According to league sources, the Patriots have plans to bring in three highly touted safety prospects: Patrick Chung (Oregon), William Moore (Missouri), and Louis Delmas (Western Michigan).

    All three project as first- or second-round picks. The Patriots have six picks in the first three rounds and could easily use one on a safety with Rodney Harrison being an unrestricted free agent.
    Source: Boston Globe
  2. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

    #54 Jersey

    Chung's my binky.

    You draft him and straight away you've got a Special Teams stud, and in time a player capable of playing both S spots, but specifically our long term SS because he's got the all round game. You also get a leader.

    What's not to love?
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I would personally add Sean Smith to the list. I like all 4 a lot.

    The big question to me is how much you prioritize one over the others if you love one of them but really like all 4? Thats the dilemma I'm in right now.

    My order of priority:

    1. Delmas. My clear favorite. I think his floor his Michael Griffen and his ceiling is Troy Polamalu. A bit on the small side at 5'1"" 203#. Needs 5-10# of muscle, but is a terrific hitter and intimidating presence with FS coverage ability. Sometimes gets overly agressive. Good leadership, was a clear leader at the Senior Bowl. Scored a 12 on his Wonderlic, but seems to have goot football smarts.

    2a. Smith. I can't decide between Smith and Moore for #2. Smith is 6' 3 1/2" and 214# with CB cover skills and range and excellent ball skills. He is clearly the best FS prospect of the bunch (with Delmas 2nd). He's not especially physical, though he doesn't shy from contact. Hasn't played much S yet as he was used as CB, and he has upside there as well.

    2b. Moore. The 2007 version of William Moore was possibly the best college safety I've seen in a decade. The 2008 version was terrible. The big question is how much was due to a combination of injury, weight gain, and poor use by the Mizzou coaching staff. He had a lousy Senior Bowl but looked much better at the combine, and showed a lot of his 2007 form at his pro day. At 6'1" and 215-220# he has terrific size, with good hands and coverage ability for his size.

    4. Chung. This is not to diminish Chung. I like him a lot, and had my eye on him all last year as a possible 2nd round pick for the Pats. He's around 5'11" 210# (or about the size I would hope Delmas to play at). Was a late starter at football, and is still learning. High character kid, great football smarts, big hitter. Decent coverage and ball skills, but a SS first. Not as much athleticism as the other 3, but still well above average. Very high floor kid.

    I would be thrilled with any of these 4 in the 2nd round. The 2 big questions to my mind are:

    1. Is the one the Pats prefer worth taking at #34 when one of the others will almost certainly be available at #47, or even possibly at 58? Delmas and Smith are the most likely to go early right now. Moore could go first or last out of the group. Atlanta at 24, Baltimore at 26, Miami at 43, the Giants at 45, Houston at 46 and Denver at 48 are all possible safety destinations. All 4 seem more likely to go 2nd round than 1st, though late 1st is not out of the question.

    2. What role do the Pats prefer, given their other personnel? In particular, do they prefer to use Meriweather at FS or SS? I understand that there is not the classic distinction between the 2 positions. But Chung and Moore are pretty much pure SS types, whereas Delmas and Smith have both FS and SS potential. I probably put Delmas and Smith slightly ahead because of their superior coverage skills, with Delmas 1st because of his higher floor than Smith (better hitter, more experience at the position).

    Finally, some people think Rashad Johnson from Alabama should be added to the list. I like Johnson, but think that he's a pure FS and that he's got a low ceiling, having made the most of his physical abilities due to his ball skills and football smarts. Nice player, but I prefer the 4 listed here by far.

    Don't know if that helps.
  4. Bring Back Antowain!

    Bring Back Antowain! Practice Squad Player

    Chung: amazing tackler, hard hitter, versatile, good quickness
    Moore: Iffy tackler, big playmaker, aggresive, versatile
    Delmas: solid tackler, great instincts, lacks bulk

    All three of these safeties are very good. Chung and Moore are more of strong safeties, while Delmas is more of a free safety. However, all three can play both safety positions.

    However, if the Pats are looking for that traditional safety/linebacker hard-hitting big bodied player, I think that they should take a look at Nic Harris from Oklahoma.
  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks Supporter Supporter

    They have looked at Nic Harris, but his 4.8 speed in shorts isn't encouraging. If you want a S/LB hybrid, there's a number of them in this class, there's also some big, physical CBs who look to offer the athleticism and hard hitting potential...though I'm not confident Sean Smith is one of them.
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I don't think Nic Harris has a role on the Pats. At best, he's an in the box guy and a Tank Williams kind of SS/LB hybrid. At worst, he's a Tampa 2 OLB. He's slow as molasses for a safety, but has a great backpedal. One of the draft gurus was quoted as saying that he runs the 40 as fast on his backpedal as he does going forward. :D

    Looking at my prior post, it's unfair to list Chung as #4. I think it's more like Delmas #1, and then 2a/2b/2c for the other guys. Chung is the safest of the 3, but probably has the lowest ceiling. Again, all are terrific prospects.
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    If we really like a guy #34 might be the place to get him because the Browns lost Sean Jones and are looking at pretty much the same group and they pick #36. They seem particularly interested in Delmas with whom they have already had a private workout and are bringing back again for a visit.

    mayoclinic - not to kiss your butt but I just feel like saying you are by far the best draft poster we've ever had.
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I think you're probably right. Much as I would love to see Barwin/Beatty/Delmas at #23/34/47, I doubt Delmas will last that long.

    By the old draft value charts, combining #47 and #89 gets us to around #34-35. If the Rams (or even Cleveland, who has no 3rd round pick) would be interested and Beatty and Delmas were both available at 34, I would be quite interested in trading #47 and 89 to move up to #35/36 and take both of those guys. Then see who falls to #58, or more likely trade it into 2010.
  9. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    The Eagles lost Dawkins and have two picks in the 20's. I'd be surprised if they don't use one on a safety and Delmas fits their profile.
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    That could be the case, though I certainly hope not. The eagles have plenty of other areas of need - OL, TE, and RB. Plus they always seem to love DEs.

    Worst case scenario, if we believed that to be the case and Phill would take Delmas at 28, would packaging #89 and 34 to move up to around 26/27 be worth it, particularly with the other prospects on the board? I'm not sure. I've kind of reconciled myself to going up to the top of the 2nd round to get Delmas, but I'm not sure I'd go further.
  11. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

    I don't know how you guys know so much about all these players but you amaze me.
    It would be interesting to read some of your mocks for us.
    thanks for all the info
  12. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    I think that we should look at Safety at #34 and see who is sitting there left on the board. I do agree that some team may reach and take a safety at the end of the first:

    Atlanta - They finally realize what BB knew 6 years ago about Milloy who was beat over his head a few times so a SS type player is on their radar. I really think that NT and TE will also be on their radar but there is TE's in the second they might wait for not as much at NT.

    Eagles - I think would like Dalmus or at least Jimmy Johnson would:D but OL and RB is too much of a need for them at this point. Adding a WR for Donovan must be a priority with good WR talent floating around in the first round they could put a pick there so I think we get by Phily.

    Giants - They kinda worry me because if they do not get good value at WR they might spend another first rounder on a top Safety to pair with Philips. Their D-Line is stacked so getting a nice Safety go compliment their pass rush might be on their list.

    Steelers - Ryan Clark is entering his contract year, and it's unlikely the Steelers will re-sign a 30-year-old free safety to a big deal. They may take a safety here but OL I believe will be the pick.

    Detroit - They need help everywhere so I really cannot predict this one but safety is not a direct need for them:)

    What I am getting at is if we pass on safety #23 which I think we should, then we will still get great value at #34. I am kinda in the camp of Mayo as I would not mind having (Dalmus, Moore, Smith, Chung or even Johnson) which we could be able to get at #34 or 47 or even 58 depending on how the draft is going and who is available where.
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Thanks, but I wouldn't consider myself top 20. What I've learned from Patchick, BOR, Mgteich, Seneschal2, Jays52 and many others puts me to shame. I just talk a lot.
  14. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #22 Jersey

    I would be thrilled with either Chung or Delmas...I don't know much about Moore.

    But I just like seeing that we brought 3 safeties in as I think Safety is probably position two on my list of needs maybe 3 (but our DL is set for this year just ? in the future (OLB 1)).

    We have used a 3 man rotation for a few years and we only have two guys you can count on. Tank could fill the role but he has to make it thru camp first.
  15. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    Hi Bill it's me Bill............ :D
  16. LuthierJr

    LuthierJr Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    WOW that IS short AND FAT! :rolleyes:

    Good post man. I just had to give ya a hard time with the accident.
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    I can hear it now:

    Hi Bill, it's me Bill.

    Hi Bill, it's Bill. How are you Bill?

    Fine, Bill. I was wondering if you might be willing to trade down to #34 with us. I have this Bob Sanders-like safety I'm targetting, who will really beat the sh*t out of Peyton. With luck, Sorgi will turn out to be another Cassel and you'll be able to trade him for a high 2nd.

    Sounds great, Bill. I can maybe save a few bucks and still steal Harvin at 34, who will run right by him on the way to the end zone.

    Good deal Bill. Thanks.

    Thanks too, Bill.
  18. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #24 Jersey

    Delmas and Moore are my two favorites. I think Delmas is the more versitile of the two being able to play Strong and Free is big positive. Delmas is a big hitter and I like the Troy Polamalu comparison because they both put their bodies on the line with every hit. (Polamalu diving over the line on 4th and short gives me goose bumps :D) On the flip side He does take some shakey angles and will still need to put on 10 to 15lbs and get stronger. Moore is much of the same without the recklessness but he still brings the wood and has good ball skills and hands. I think Moore is the better of the two now (assuming hes healthy) but you cant go wrong with either. Also dont forget about Rashad Johnson from Bama.
  19. Mark Morse

    Mark Morse Supporter Supporter

    #15 Jersey

    I am pretty sure that Nic Harris is not on their board ... way too slow for Safety.

    I think the Pats will play this similar to the way they did when they drafted Eugene Wilsion. They will vertically stack these Safeties they have on their board, and will trade up or down to pick the one they want. This isn't saying they will take one at 34, 47 or 58, just that they will get one at some point in the 2nd round.

    I actually think they may take two, I like Chip Vaughn as well.
  20. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I agree with Mayo as far Delmas having the highest ceiling. I like Delmas a lot and I'm pretty sure as a wannabe draft mocker can be that he will fit in well with the Pats.

    If he didn't have such a good senior bowl I don't think I would consider him with a 2nd rounder. When it comes down to it, the knock on this guy was he played much less than elite competition during his career. I think it is easy to cheer for a guy from a small school that comes in and kicks *%^ and takes names against elite competition such as the Senior bowl.

    I hated the thought of taking Moore after his poor Senior bowl. He had a great 07 like many mentioned and that is so hard to overlook considering he may have been misused in 08 as others have suggested. My God though, that Senior bowl he looked like he didn't belong on the same field as those guys.I know it is only a small sample and some of it is positioning and the way you are used. Non the less that is scary to me.

    Chung is raw and still needs coaching. I don't think he is asready to come in and start from day 1 and not until later in the season. He is a hard hitter from all accounts and good against the run, an excellent tackler which Belichick loves. But I'm not sure of his coverage skills, has anyone seen enough of this guy to make a rookie determination on that?
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