Thoughts on Kiper's "Grade A" Patriots Draft for New England

[50-yard-line]

Draft seventeen CBs and if you can't have pressure on the QB if is a worthless effort. I say we need a pass rusher and/plus a John Abraham.

Where is the cover OLB in his Draft?

We don't need a 5'10 WR. Why does everyone think we need WW at every wideout position? I think even the slow footed Hopkins is too short at 6'1".

I thought this would be a great year for the WR class. And although it is deep, they all have holes. Everyone wants Justin "alligator arms" Hunter (when I saw that he was done for me). Wheaton is a lighter, less accomplished WW. I am thinking Keenan Allen but is he not just a slightly larger Jabar Gaffney? Tavon Wilson anyone? Don't we have a guy like Jeff Demps who can do the same things if he gets his head on straight?

Woods is way over hyped. D'Rick Rogers is a knucklehead. Patterson will struggle to pick up offenses. Bailey is perfect but 4" too short. He is like a younger Steve Smith but not as aggressive. but Smith is pretty good.

When your CBs are now getting to be 6' and taller but still are quick, and these little guys can get muscled now.

The Anti-Kiper Draft:


First-I see Margus Hunt as an All Pro via J.J. Watt, waiting to happen. He can rush a passer. He solves two problems; pressure and secondly that eliminates the need for line up of tons of added CBs.He will also play special Teams in the kicking game and bring that blocking prowess.

Second-OLB sleeper who was a former Safety and can rush the passer as well is Jamie Collins. More pass rush and can pick up a TE or RB out of the backfield with 4.59 speed and 6'4" and 250 lbs. This was a major issue for the D in 2012. This could also make Hightower a MLB. I like part of Spikes tough guy and hitem hard game but he kills us in coverage and he is out of here in 2014. Spikes is more of a two down MLB. Ninc's contract is up in 2014. I love his overachiever game but if you had to make a choice for the good of the Team, is he 100% your answer? He's a tweener.

Third-WR I would trade that pick to the Titans for Kenny Britt who could be Moss II. I can't see another WR in this Draft with his talent. He is still young. He is smart. He is just immature but so was Moss running over parking meter maids. Plan 'B" would be call Andy Reid up once again and try to get Jon Baldwin who has been less than a great first rounder for K.C. but consider the QB issues. BB should know a lot about him.

Not thrilled with any of those Kiper Picks. Frederick would become a 16 game DNP participant. Oregon Sate does not pump out Mensa educated WR's (hello Chad) and Taylor would be a DB rotation guy.

Here is the question Cousins; Would the Pats be a better Team in 2013 after Kiper's Draft? Answer/ Nyet!

DW Toys

Complete agreement...well, almost complete. I don't know Collins and not sure I'd go linebacker in that round. Love Margus Hunt, though.

And anyone thinking a rookie WR comes in here and contributes significantly this year, I think, is kidding himself. History, and not just hte Pats' history, does not agree. Given the news on Ahern and Gronk (although Fells's shin is healthy again and I love Ballard) and the miss on Sanders, I think the Pats need to take some flyers around the league for guys who have proven they can play. DA, maybe, or yeah, Britt. Risky in either case, but I don't see a whole lot of options.

The draft certainly won't fix this year's issues if Gronk and Ahern aren't ready to rumble.

 

[JackBauer]

And anyone thinking a rookie WR comes in here and contributes significantly this year, I think, is kidding himself. History, and not just hte Pats' history, does not agree.

I'm sorry, but this is just completely untrue.

 

[Rob0729]

Only some message board fans think that the patriots don't need a corner in the first or early second round.

As was the case when we drafted Solder, a CB may be given a year before he is expected to have a major role or start.

The draft is about the future. Talib is no guarantee for 2014. One of the worst secondaries in the NFL needs help. All but ostriches understand this.

The only excuse for not drafting a corner in the first couple of rounds would be if Belichick is planning to move McCourty back to corner. In that case, we would likely draft a safety among the top 3 picks.

When Talib was healthy, the secondary didn't play that bad. Part of the reason the secondary has been bad the last few years is because opposing QBs have enough time to eat a sandwich before they have to get rid of the ball.

Personally, I think DE or DT is a much more of a need in the first or second round than CB. I think a stronger pass rush would do more wonders to the secondary than adding another potential starter.

Belichick used to build his defenses from the inside out. His best defenses going back to his Giants days had a strong front seven and the back four were not always great.

I don't have my head in the sand. I think I may be one of the few who are seeing clearly. The Pats could have traded for Revis and he couldn't cover his guy for as long as the front seven gives opposing QBs at times.

 

[SVN]

Pats wont pick anyone in the first round. They will trade out.

 

[Ozymandias]

Amendola has 10 fumbles in 42 games. Sanders has 5 fumbles in 40 games, despite being a #4 target. Worrying about fumbles doesn't seem to be in vogue at Gillette this offseason, for whatever reason.

This is true in that sense. The Patriots may just be eyeing versatile players that best fit their scheme going forward whilst disregarding all other limitations beyond that. It wouldn't the first time they've done such a thing.

Though, for the record, Wheaton may be a good fit in New England - given his versatility, that they always covet.

 

[patfanken]

This draft in significant in the fact that whomever we pick with those top 3 picks has the luxury of time. No one is likely to be thrown into the fray as significant contributor as we saw happen to Hightower, Jones. Dennard, and Wilson.

That being said, I don't "hate" Kiper's pick as much as I don't like the positions they play. with Robo and and Kontra in thinking I'd rather my first pick (be it in the first or 2nd round) fill that need at DE/OLB/DT. And right now Hunt seems to fill most of the physical needs we are looking for. He has the size speed, and raw power you'd like in a DE. The risks are his age (25) height and experience. He certainly isn't a finished product. However if they use him as situational rusher in specific packages this season, he could be impactful. He needs to learn to do one or two things really well, for this season, then expand on that over the years.

In an ideal world we could trade out of the first round with a team with a top 5 pick in the 2nd. add a pick in the 4th and still pick up Hunt. But I would be upset with him coming off the board to us at 29.

Here's my problem with the Wheaton pick. I think the comparison of him to Deion Branch with more speed is a good one. He's a nice receiver and a decent value at 59....but just not for the Pats. Branch was most effective playing against soft zone coverages, where his precision and quickness got him separation. Branch, even in his prime years, would often disappear when he faced physical man coverages. As corners get bigger we are seeing more physical man coverage and less zone. So if we DO opt for a WR with our 2nd pick, we need one who has proven (at least at the college level) that he can excel against tight man coverages

 

[manxman2601]

Dane Brugler has a two round mock at CBS and I'd be perfectly happy with it:

29. D.J. Hayden, CB, Houston

The Patriots need to stop the bleeding in the secondary by adding more depth on the outside at cornerback. Hayden had his near-fatal injury in November, but has first round tools.

59. Robert Woods, WR, Southern California

Smooth possession receiver, fits offensive scheme perfectly.

2013 NFL Mock Drafts - CBSSports.com NFLDraftScout.com


There seems to be a media consensus forming on CB first, WR second. So that's wrong then

 

[Kontradiction]

Just an observation, but Margus Hunt is being wildly overrated by people on this forum...

 

[manxman2601]

Just an observation, but Margus Hunt is being wildly overrated by people on this forum...

He's the defensive Nate Solder. Great length and athleticism, huge upside for the position but has some rawness to his game. If things click for Hunt, he could be an outstanding defensive player. Get him an NFL coach and see what happens.

Question is, can teams get past his age?

 

[Kontradiction]

He's the defensive Nate Solder. Great length and athleticism, huge upside for the position but has some rawness to his game. If things click for Hunt, he could be an outstanding defensive player. Get him an NFL coach and see what happens.

Question is, can teams get past his age?

I think people are looking at his size as it relates to Watt and are drooling. Other than that, if you watch him, Hunt is pretty underwhelming. There are more appealing and polished pass rushers in this draft.

 

[manxman2601]

I think people are looking at his size as it relates to Watt and are drooling. Other than that, if you watch him, Hunt is pretty underwhelming. There are more appealing and polished pass rushers in this draft.

Not too sure about that. Werner is lazy and athletically limited, Ansah is just as raw as Hunt, Mingo and Jordan are beanpoles, Moore is lazy. Carradine is the real deal but like Chandler Jones is restricted to playing at DE and Jarvis Jones is slower than me.

I'm not saying that Hunt absolutely will be a good NFL player, there's a lot of projecting with his game and your criticism of him is fair in that he is unpolished but you cannot deny that length and athleticism rank pretty high in what BB values with his early picks. I'm not saying he will be the pick, but he does have a bit of a feel for a Patriots pick.

 

[M_A]

IMHO, we should trade our 7th round draft pick for Tim Tebow and the Jets 2nd rounder.

 

[Ivan]

Just an observation, but Margus Hunt is being wildly overrated by people on this forum...

Yep, what concerns me the most is his height and the ability of good offensive lineman to get leverage on him, which was apparently a problem in college that would be greatly exacerbated in the NFL. I don't have him on the short list for a first round pick.

 

[Kontradiction]

Not too sure about that. Werner is lazy and athletically limited, Ansah is just as raw as Hunt, Mingo and Jordan are beanpoles, Moore is lazy. Carradine is the real deal but like Chandler Jones is restricted to playing at DE and Jarvis Jones is slower than me.

I'm not saying that Hunt absolutely will be a good NFL player, there's a lot of projecting with his game and your criticism of him is fair in that he is unpolished but you cannot deny that length and athleticism rank pretty high in what BB values with his early picks. I'm not saying he will be the pick, but he does have a bit of a feel for a Patriots pick.

Ansah is probably the most raw pass rusher in this draft, I will give you that. I'm not buying in too much about the questions in regard to Werner's work ethic. I watched plenty of FSU games, being from Florida and also being a Gator fan (I like to know my enemy) and, out of the two, I thought Werner was the better pass rusher than Carradine prior to Carradine's knee injury. Jarvis Jones projects to be a good pass rusher because he has the game IQ in spite of his speed. His speed would only be a concern if the team elects to go back to the 3-4 and line him up at OLB.

As for Hunt, my concerns aren't so much his age as his size and his tendency, as noted by Ivan, to be out-leveraged by blockers. When watching Hunt while doing my homework for the draft, I saw a bad tendency by him (and this usually happens with all bigger DL) to stand straight up and try to rely on raw power to get through his blocker. A lot of times what would happen is that said blocker would simply go under his shoulder pads and drive him back. Is this something that he could get coached out of him? Sure, it's possible. But most DL never break that habit and if he was relying that much on raw power to get by in college, it's going to be something that haunts him even more at the NFL level.

 

[Ivan]

Ansah is probably the most raw pass rusher in this draft, I will give you that. I'm not buying in too much about the questions in regard to Werner's work ethic. I watched plenty of FSU games, being from Florida and also being a Gator fan (I like to know my enemy) and, out of the two, I thought Werner was the better pass rusher than Carradine prior to Carradine's knee injury. Jarvis Jones projects to be a good pass rusher because he has the game IQ in spite of his speed. His speed would only be a concern if the team elects to go back to the 3-4 and line him up at OLB.

As for Hunt, my concerns aren't so much his age as his size and his tendency, as noted by Ivan, to be out-leveraged by blockers. When watching Hunt while doing my homework for the draft, I saw a bad tendency by him (and this usually happens with all bigger DL) to stand straight up and try to rely on raw power to get through his blocker. A lot of times what would happen is that said blocker would simply go under his shoulder pads and drive him back. Is this something that he could get coached out of him? Sure, it's possible. But most DL never break that habit and if he was relying that much on raw power to get by in college, it's going to be something that haunts him even more at the NFL level.

Obviously I agree and i think that one of the biggest reasons they went with Jones last year was his ability to get low and win those leverage battles. hunt is an intriguing project but I'm not big on the idea of big projects with first round picks. I also think their evaluation of Bequette after one year will play heavily into their decision to go DL this year.

 

[DW Toys]

I'm sorry, but this is just completely untrue.

No, You'd be wrong then wouldn't you. He is right. Where have you been the last dozen years, under a rock?
Chances are 10% to 90% not that a rookie WR is going to make an impact of this Team the way it is structured. You know better than that Jack. Come on.

There is a guy in Foxboro who tried to dump our third round pick for a mediocre WR because he was a major talent? Nope ....Because he could assimilate better.

And oh by the way, I would take a healthy Kenny Britt over any WR in this Draft. Yep he has some poop in his pants, but so do the rest of these WRs who are gonna take three years to get full value.
DW Toys

 

[JackBauer]

No, You'd be wrong then wouldn't you. He is right. Where have you been the last dozen years, under a rock?
Chances are 10% to 90% not that a rookie WR is going to make an impact of this Team the way it is structured. You know better than that Jack. Come on.

I appreciate your completely arbitrary projections for success, but he was wrong, and so are you.

Granted it's more difficult for rookies to produce in New England off the bat, but it's certainly not impossible, nor unprecedented.

 

[Claremonster]

No, You'd be wrong then wouldn't you. He is right. Where have you been the last dozen years, under a rock?
Chances are 10% to 90% not that a rookie WR is going to make an impact of this Team the way it is structured. You know better than that Jack. Come on.

There is a guy in Foxboro who tried to dump our third round pick for a mediocre WR because he was a major talent? Nope ....Because he could assimilate better.

And oh by the way, I would take a healthy Kenny Britt over any WR in this Draft. Yep he has some poop in his pants, but so do the rest of these WRs who are gonna take three years to get full value.
DW Toys

I would trade a 5th for Britt. Not much more than that though.

Wheaton is like Deion Branch. I like this pick. Branch was really good when he was younger.

A cb is a need, but, so is a pass rusher.

 

[Deus Irae]

I appreciate your completely arbitrary projections for success, but he was wrong, and so are you.

Granted it's more difficult for rookies to produce in New England off the bat, but it's certainly not impossible, nor unprecedented.

Just as an example, Branch played only 13 games as a rookie, because of a leg injury. He still managed 43 receptions and 489 yards, and was the team's #3 receiver in both yards and receptions.

 

[mgteich]

No, it isn't impossible for a draftee to produce. However, we've needed receivers for over 10 years and haven't drafted one yet that has succeeded as rookie (or even after that).

Of course, Belichick has used draft choice to secure Welker and Moss, and tried to secure Sanders. But these examples simply underline the lack of success of the patriots in drafting wide receivers.

Perhaps this will be Edelman's breakout year as a wideout. Perhaps Belichick will strike it rich with 2 WR contributors (as he did at TE and RB). Or NOT.

The media is still speculating on what WR the patriots might be able to trade for. Obviously, many draft a WR in their mocks. Others bow to reality and expect us to draft a corner.

Just as an example, Branch played only 13 games as a rookie, because of a leg injury. He still managed 43 receptions and 489 yards, and was the team's #3 receiver in both yards and receptions.