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Thomas Jefferson and the media.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by reflexblue, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Think about this for a minute. Thomas Jefferson on of the greatest presidents,principle author of the Declaration of Independence, Republican, wrote the Virginia statute of Religious Freedom, Secratary of State. I could go on and on. He was one of the founding fathers of this country.

    He also had a number of children with the slaves he owned.

    Question, What would have happened to him today if it got out that he had multiple exta-marital affairs with African-American women. With the media,and public opinion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2008
  2. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    so what's your point? it's alright for political figures to be adulterers and morally corrupt?
     
  3. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    The point is that just because someone has flaws doesn't mean he can't be a great President or public figure. One doesn't mutually exclude the other.
    In todays climate of attacking public figures for who their associated with can't imagine the sh!t storm this would cause. We don't have to go back to Jefferson, take FDR a great President who cheated on his wife frequently and the press was aware but kept it hush.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2008
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That was then, this is now.
    What would happen in Rome if they started throwing Christians into a big ring for Tigers and Lions to eat.
     
  5. jack

    jack 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Fogbuster and harry would blame hollywood for that behavior
    [​IMG]
     
  6. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    FDR was a great prez. and he had ex. marital affairs and thats pretty much Now.
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We are in frighteningly conservative times. Just look at movies from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, not to mention tv shows, and it's pretty clear that with the advent of Reaganism our nation as grown more and more conservative. But, Jefferson was alive in liberal times and the liberal times will soon return.
     
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree-----:singing:
     
  9. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    FLAWS? I guess cheney had flaws when he went hunting. is it too much to ask to have integrity and morals?
     
  10. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I don't think You understand the point I'm making here. Someone can have flaws in their personal life,but that doesn't mean they can't separate the personal from the public, and be a great leader. A number of great leaders weren't pillars of virtue but were great leaders. Now a days they seem to be tied together,and because the public is aware of those personal flaws, or he!! who ones friends are their not fit for office.
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    It's been a while, but...

    [​IMG]

    Aren't you the same person that's been telling everyone in here that conservatism is dead, and that liberalism is running the show these days? Ah, but alas, when something doesn't jive with your previous claims, it's cuz we're living in "frighteningly conservative times". Let's forget the fact that the issues inside the democratic party are not being caused, nor inflicted by conservatives, but by mainstream democrats themselves.

    Even more proposterous is the fact that you think today's days are "frighteningly conservative times", but that Jefferson lived in a liberal oasis. :rofl: I guess owning, pimping, and sexually abusing slaves was a liberal thing?
     
  12. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "Raehruhraehrehraehh the buck shot's here raehraehreh."
     
  13. PatsFanInVa

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    1. The eighteenth and twenty-first centuries can be examined along a present-day left-right axis to some degree.

    2. Personal liberty (as opposed to state-ordered behavior) was more permissible and idolized.

    3. To the extent that personal liberty ruled the hearts of eighteenth century men, they permitted themselves "sins against the right," as well as "sins against the left."

    4. In its pure form the left would be most offended that Jefferson could own and abuse slaves. That is because the political left of this nation takes the core stand that there is a national project, and that the national project takes the guise of equality. The left insists on interpreting liberty as subject to equality; ergo, Jefferson's "right" (his liberty to do a thing) is subject to the right of the other, who is, in his own words, "endowed by [his] creator with inalienable rights...."

    5. In its pure form, the right would not be offended by Jefferson's actions vis a vis the slave. The Right distinguishes itself by emphasizing the liberty of the individual regardless of a current state of equality. Ergo, during the state in which a slave has no equality under the law, Jefferson had the right to own said slave. It was a great injustice in a pure rightist's mind, in fact, to deprive Jefferson of said liberty. Moving forward, a generation dies, and the next generation must support the rights -- i.e., the liberties -- of the plantation against the sharecropper, the titans of industry against the worker, or the segregationist lunch counter owner, who has the liberty to serve or not serve whomever he wants at the lunch counter. Liberty is pursued at the current state of ownership or social mobility of each individual, without regard to the equality of all individuals; equality is presented as equality after ownership rights (i.e., "liberty" to do as one wants with what one owns) have been secured. So two millionaires must be treated equally in court; but there is no reason to believe that a millionaire should have the same representation as an indigent.

    6. Nevertheless, a specious third way has developed, harking back to the times before the Enlightenment. This is a theocratic urge that manifests itself in both the current interest in establishing a national religion, and in the current interest in enforcing what is at root a theologically based prudishness far more reminiscent of the sixteenth century than the eighteenth.

    This "third way" -- our current theocratic movement -- is a danger to both the left and the right. And it is also the root cause of our society's laughable obsession with the state of others' marriages and relationships.

    Think, people: Were it as normal and okay to be gay as straight, and were it considered the private business of two people whether their genitals were solely for one anothers use, and were prostitution legal, then

    - A senator would not have to jabber about a "wide stance."

    - We would not have to follow the story of Spitzer's prostitution addiction.

    - We would not care about the NJ governor's gay affair, and whether it actually started with the involvement of the Mrs.

    - We could actually follow political campaigns about issues.

    And this is how our prudishness damns both the left and the right. Some very few people would campaign to "get other people to stop having the wrong kind of sex." Many more would campaign to, for example, get the corruption out of the system. Maybe, just maybe, we could focus on war, national debt, health care, or education.

    But that's unlikely, so long as we actually believe these various types of pelvic politics have significance.

    Okay I'm all ranted out. Smoke time.

    PFnV
     
  14. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I do understand your point and I totally disagree with it.

    Now let's take out politician and insert teacher or priest. If someone is an adulter, gambler, does drugs, or womanizes. Do you really trust their trustment? The question that presents itself is how do we define who a person is? Are they the person in the spotlight(media) or are they the person in their private life. and which personality makes decisions that effects people's lives? just because a person puts on a good front doesn't mean they are a good person.

    "Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking."
    - H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
     
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I have to ask a question before today did you know about Jeffersons off spring?

    I would rather have an inperfect person in their private life ,but a good leader for his country and people, than a incompantent leader that has an ublemished personal life. More people are likely to get hurt with the latter. Ideally I'd like to have both,but if I can't have that then i choose the privetly imperfect ,but publicaly sound leader.

    I didn't start the thread to debate what we have but to show that in an age of hyper scutiny, were someone can be destroyed simply for who they know,or some other petty reason. i.e. McCain because of his gaff about Iran. OR Obama because his middle name is Hussain.
     
  16. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    ya I knew about Jefferson's offspring.
     

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