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This still bothers me about the Super Bowl

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Snarf, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. Snarf

    Snarf Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    What, concretely, can the Pats do to ensure that they don't lose again in the same fashion as they did in the Super Bowl? Do the Pats need to make personnel changes? Training changes? Practice changes?

    The OL got creamed, Brady got creamed, and the coaches didn't make good adjustments.

    I just feel that as of now nothing has changed that would stop what happened from happening again.

    What needs to be changed?
     
  2. WhiskeyBreath

    WhiskeyBreath 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Belichick was out coached. That almost never happens.

    That combined with the Giants making some clutch plays and the Patriots missing huge opportunities to put the game away equals a loss. The Patriots win that matchup 7-10 times in my opinion.
     
  3. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    NOTHING .they were out coached , their players get out played and every adjustment was countered by another coach and his players.

    in a game where any given sunday term is used their is no hope.

    but this begs the question where their ever
    1)A coach who never got outcoached
    2)A team where no player was never out played.
     
  4. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    The Giants played great but the Patriots were very one dimensional in their offense approach. NY was hell bent on getting to the passer, the should have be opportunities to run the ball. The 500+ points was nice but they demonstrated against SD that when necessary they could run the ball. I would like to see a little bit more balance (ala 2004), in the run versus pass ratio and a whole lot more nastiness across the whole O line.

    Still if on the final drive Asante, Harrison or Merriweather don't clunk those INTs off their butter finger then the point is mute.

    Bottom line - It is damn hard to win in the NFL, most games come down to 2-3 plays. The Giants made theirs when they needed to and deserved to win.
     
  5. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    If that game is replayed 10 times, the Pats win 8 of them IMO. Their heads weren't in it, BB wasn't in it, the play-calling stunk.

    You don't win 18 straight games and then lose one because there is a fundamental problem with the makeup of your team.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008
  6. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    the defense will be what cahnges....

    instead of the giants scoring on their last drive, b/c of our new D, they would NOT score on the last drive....

    and our team this year will be better then that of last year...

    a pass rush is what we need most now, and a pass rush is what we will get
     
  7. SmokeShowin

    SmokeShowin Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Make more plays than their opponents.

    We didn't capitalize on mistakes that the Giants made, and the Giants capitalized off mistakes we made.

    You can't blame officiating. There were non-calls on both sides.

    And then there were the 2 big plays by Tyree.

    We got beat. It's a new season now.
     
  8. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's pretty simple if you get down to it, We got beat in the passing game in the middle of the field. The two biggest plays were Boss over the middle for like 20+ yards and then Tyree, same deal (he rolled a seven on that one). I believe that Harrison was going to blitz and backed out at the last minute on the TE Boss catch. Where was old JS? On the biggest play in the game (the Third down, downer) I believe that Sanders was watching like the 120 million other people were.

    The CB's of the Pats play outside technique. This leaves the Safeties and LB's to cover inside the hashes. In 06 we did not have Harrison so James Sanders and Hawkins got beat badly in the middle as well as sub LB Alexander. It didn't make any difference because Adai ran over Sanders anyway during the last fateful touchdown.

    This year in the SB, Rodney was back but played in the box some. He did not play coverage that well in the SB either. Sanders needed to step up. James Sanders got killed again! He is terrible and I do not want to hear the words "up and coming" or "breakout year". This guy stinks.

    Let me understand this. Correct me if I am wrong. A Safety should be able to tackle and at the least cover. A gimpy leg Tank Williams is a big upgrade over Sanders.

    Here is the deal. The Pats biggest D weakness is up the middle the last two years. Yep they need a CB to replace Assante, but I am sure that is to be handled. I am more concerned with the middle back D. I think Merriweather will be o.k. if he gets married to a jugs gun this preseason. Rodney can be still a great player, but in a rotation and pick his spots.

    More rush helps. It took 18 and a half games, but I saw A. Thomas getting decent QB pressure from the outside. That will help too.

    That still leaves Mr. Sanders. Tank Williams? Who knows. I believe Safety is still an issue and Raiders SS Michael Huff is still available for the right deal. He's young and under contract. I would swap our #7 in round one for the Raiders second rounder and Michael Huff. He can cover. He's bigger than Sanders and could be a great tandem with Merriweather for years. Don't know about his CAP.

    Secondly, offensively Neal got hurt in the first half. That is no excuse but Hochstein got creamed. Maroney became a ghost all game. The freakish Ben Watson......Watson....anybody, anybody Beuler? Watson? And if you can tell me why Kaczur was playing RT over O'Callaghan I want to know why. O'Callaghan stoned Strahan in game 17 without help mostly.

    It seems to me sometimes that the Pats try to force feed their backups into big games like in 06 with Alexander and this years SB game with DT Moore and LB Woods (big play to lose that ball on the fumble) played in the SB rotation a bit this year. Why wait until the SB? Then they play favorites like Kaczur on a hunch.

    People are saying we need a RT. Let's give Ryan O'Callaghan a longer shot and I think Kaczur should be playing guard. I can't see the drafting of a Clady being more ready to start over, say an O'Callaghan right now and Ryan is still young.

    We need a quicker ILB. FA Al Wilson comes to mind and is healthy now and available. He has more tread left than Zach Thomas I believe.

    How about a rotation DE/LB that can be had during the draft like Jason Taylor? That adds years to Taylors' career. The Tuna is just posturing. Would have liked to have Taylor pass rushing on that third down disaster.

    We need a larger CB (HAVE WE LEARNED OUR MIDGET LESSON?) and a playmaking safety. Draft a Safety early or get Huff. Later rounds? I would take B.C. S Jamie Silva over Sanders in a minute. They are the same size and speed but the key word is "playmaker".

    Of course giving our D line tazer guns to remove the massive and obvious grabbing and holding by the Giants OL would have helped too (SEE Sports Illustrated main SB pictorial showing a blatant hold for all the world to see on that fateful 3rd down)
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008
  9. newton_tom_cat

    newton_tom_cat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    i think they were distracted, especially the coaching staff. i think all the relentless spygate crap from specter and our own crap paper the herald the day before, finally got the better of them. the coaching looked very "flat" to me. not reflective of the current realities of the game, but rather programmatic moves as if stuck in the regular season. they seemed very "marty-like", is another way of putting it
     
  10. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess you could say Belichick was "out-coached" because he only dressed 2 TEs and one, K.Brady, got hurt. Other than that, I can't fault Belichick's coaching.

    The O-line got flat outplayed. No amount of coaching would have stopped the Giant's D-linemen. They were a men on a mission. K.Brady blocking the way he had all year. Or Spach being on the roster to take over when K. Brady got hurt, might have helped, but the o-line just didn't play up to the standards everyone expected.

    The Giants got LUCKY four times in one series. They had two sure interceptions dropped by the Patriots, Manning wasn't called down when he was "in the grasp" and Tyree made a luck catch that I still can't figure out how Harrison didn't knock it free.
     
  11. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    DW Toys - You REALLY need to learn the game because most of the stuff you spewed was just plain WRONG. Every time you post, you show you don't understand the defense the Pats play and that it your lack of understanding that is at issue. Not the play of James Sanders.

    The Pats "biggest weakness" the last two years was that they played a soft zone Cover 3. Which means that they give up the SHORT stuff over the middle ON PURPOSE because they don't want to get beat deep.

    Now, since you missed it, O'Callaghan has been lousy outside of 6 games since he got to the Pats. O'Callaghan was getting creamed just like Kaczur was. They DID try O'Callaghan out there. But you missed it.

    As for your idiocy about the "midget" CBs, you really need to look around the league better. Most of the GOOD CBs are SHORTER than 6'. Including Ty Law and Asante Samuel. OH, and, since you missed it, Hobbs finished the year with a sports hernia and another injury. Hobbs wasn't spectacular and is better covering the slot, but he wasn't the worst #2 in the league by a long shot.
     
  12. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    LOL at your "quote". OMG, that was good.
     
  13. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gotta laugh at the "where was James Sanders on the Tyree catch" take....uh, Manning was scrambling all over the place ,had four hands on his jersey, miraculously broke free and heaved up a prayer in Tyree's direction, and ToysForTots wants the Patriots zone coverage to be like glue for like 7 seconds....OK...geez...obsess much?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008
  14. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    btw PJ...how's the peeking duck over there?
     
  15. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick In the Starting Line-Up

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    The worst part yet is that in the first Giants-Pats matchup, the Giants had the Pats on the ropes, BUT the offensive line held up their end of the bargain. They only allowed one sack the entire game. Overall they had been a consistent bunch for the rest of the season as well, only to wilt in the Super Bowl.

    The Super Bowl is still too painful of a memory at this point.

    I mean, think about it, this upcoming season the Pats are going to fight SO hard to obtain something they should have already won last year, the Pats 4th Lombardi Trophy in franchise history.
     
  16. MrClutch

    MrClutch Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    All powerhouse teams usually have 1 or 2 games they lose each season. Unfortunately for us, ours came in the Superbowl which was obv our very last game. What can you do? We were pretty much limping to the finish line. 18 straight teams we beat, eventually someone was going to beat us with a solid game plan. We pretty much played the same way all year, and we continued to play that way in the Superbowl.
     
  17. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Tastes like chicken.
     
  18. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Run a balanced offense, simple as that. Two super Bowls because they kept running with pokey Smith. You can't let the defense rush with impunity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2008
  19. bostonia3333

    bostonia3333 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I just can't understand why it took 19 games for a team to figure out how to rush our passer. WHAT exactly did the Giants do that was different from our previous opponents? The Giants had a decent defensive line, but I don't think it was more formidable than Baltimore, Indy, or San Diego's. It just boggles my mind how we could shut down those teams and just choke against a mediocre NYG team in the biggest sporting event of the year. For 18 games we had the best offensive line in the NFL and many people were comparing it to the 90s Dallas line and KC's Great wall of China, which is now laughable. The line played unreal for the entire season, picking up a zillion different types of blitz packages, even backups like Hochstein were very good. How can we go from being SO good to SO bad? Yeah we were outcoached, but we usually make those in-game adjustments so well.

    I was expecting a 45-17 Pats win, with Brady going off into the sunset as the greatest qb ever. I thought Brady would hit Moss for a 50 yd bomb to start the game like Young hit Rice for a bomb to start that SF-SD Super Bowl in 94. The shock has not left me, I don't think it ever will until we get back and win this darn thing next year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2008
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Unoriginal is probably far better versed in this than I, but I'll offer my opinions and observations.

    1.) I don't think this offensive line has mastered zone blocking

    2.) I think the failures of the O-line make Maroney hesitate at times

    3.) Neal is the team's best pulling O-lineman

    4.) The Giant's sold out on the defensive line, plowing forward every snap


    Therefore, once Neal went down, the running game was non-existent, which lead to....


    5.) Mankins had his worst day of the season, possibly in his career

    6.) Without Neal to help him, Kaczur was exposed on the outside on the right, and Light was struggling with false starts on the left as he tried to keep up with yet another speed rusher



    The bottom line is that it wasn't so much the Giants doing anything spectacular (although they did seem to confuse the O-line at times) so much as the Patriots just playing awful along the O-line. I'm sure Mankins would love a 'do over'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2008
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