This LB corps could be dominant!

[Rob0729]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

McGinest was playing the best football of his career. He had been injured in
his prime. Athletically he was fresh.

Anyone that tells me Bruschi is near the top of his game athletically, is crazy IMO. Also Roman Phifer had a dramatic decline as he approached the age Seau already is (Seau looks a lot more athletic than Bru, but over 40 linebackers are rare).

You can do anything with statisitics, but what counts is what you see with your eyeballs on the field. I saw a tired non-athletic LB corps at the end of the last two years. If you saw something else, that's fine.

I didn't think age hurt them last year at all. In fact, I think the defense stepped up for the offense in a lot of games late in the season and the playoffs. The defense did it's job in the Super Bowl except for some bonehead costly mistakes which had nothing to do with fatigue and also held the Chargers to 12 points. The best game by the defense all year came arguably against the Steelers on December 9th in particular Vrabel who had a career game no matter what the stats say. I didn't see the defense get tired last year. In fact, if anyone looked tired at the end of the season, it was the offense.

You can make the argument that the LBs got tired the year before, but that was due to large part that Seau was injured and there was absolutely no depth at the position. They had Tully Banta-Cain starting at the end of the season who needed to be pulled from the starting line up to start Eric Alexander in his first ever start in the AFC Championships.

If anything, the depth is worlds better at the position than in previous years. That has been the biggest problem the last two years than anything IMHO. Hopefully guys like Mayo, Crabel, and Hobson live up to expectations and the starting line up will be stronger than it has been in a long while.

 

[BritPat]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

Really looking forwards to seeing them this coming season. IMO we've needed a more mobile and dynamic guy inside for a while (NOT a knock on Tedy and Junior), last year the unit was purring with AD inside, which shows you what a difference a bit more youth and exuberance can make.

I think that the guys inside will rotate, although we'll probably start with Tedy and Victor in the first few games allowing Jerod to be eased in. Probably see AD play a few snaps inside as well with maybe Pierre Woods being allowed to pin his ears back and get after the QB, or even Crable.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

You're right--I don't get your point. What does it have to do with the fact that these guys are ancient NOW?

You made the snide aside regarding Rodney. I'm pointing out that the players were still in the league and old prior to their arrival.

Like I said, I don't mind trolls. I just despise the bad ones.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

(c) one of them had a stroke at age 32--how often does that occur to healthy young pro athletes? You make the call.....

How about in healthy 15-year-old who's never touched steroids? I know one who did. [And 21-year-olds don't drop dead of sudden cardiac arrest, either.]

In any case, the most likely cause of Bruschi's stroke was an undetected patent foramen ovale (i.e., a hole in his heart), combined with two long flights to Hawaii which clearly predispose to blood clots.

So unless you have something stronger than innuendo for this particular accusation, I suggest you never bring it up again.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

You guys all seem to be pretty high on Hobson.He may work out for ya,Dunno.
Was never too overly impressed with him as a Jet.He sat on the FA bench for quite awhile so I guess other teams werent sold on him either.He had his moments but overall hes pretty darn average.

how the heck do you know all the way from iowa? did you see any of the games?

anyhow, he played under mangini. that will cause a decrease in any players' ability to perform at a professional level.

 

[RayClay]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

I didn't think age hurt them last year at all. In fact, I think the defense stepped up for the offense in a lot of games late in the season and the playoffs. The defense did it's job in the Super Bowl except for some bonehead costly mistakes which had nothing to do with fatigue and also held the Chargers to 12 points. The best game by the defense all year came arguably against the Steelers on December 9th in particular Vrabel who had a career game no matter what the stats say. I didn't see the defense get tired last year. In fact, if anyone looked tired at the end of the season, it was the offense.

You can make the argument that the LBs got tired the year before, but that was due to large part that Seau was injured and there was absolutely no depth at the position. They had Tully Banta-Cain starting at the end of the season who needed to be pulled from the starting line up to start Eric Alexander in his first ever start in the AFC Championships.

I don't think we have a vast disagreement. I'm happy to start Bru and Seau now that we have some talent starting to learn. Depth has been a problem. The fact is, everyone including myself thought they were always going for vets at LB and they suddenly draft the first two ever in the first three rounds in the Belichick era. That says to me, there preferred method was a couple years past creating a reasonable turnover so they were forced to go with youth.

By the time we have two seasoned replacements for ILB (mayo and hobson?) we're going to be looking at replacing Vrabel, and Thomas won't be far off..

If it takes a year or two to get up to speed, those are the facts.
If anything, the depth is worlds better at the position than in previous years. That has been the biggest problem the last two years than anything IMHO. Hopefully guys like Mayo, Crable, and Hobson live up to expectations and the starting line up will be stronger than it has been in a long while.

I think having some young players in the rotation could prolong our starters careers.

 

[cstjohn17]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

Mayo is the wild card, if he can add some playmaking on 3rd downs either as an inside blitzer or in coverage it will help the LB unit.

But dominant is a strong description, the entire defense was damn good last year. If they didn't drop 2 or 3 INTs on the last drive people's perspective would be a lot different.

Going with signed players I don't this unit is as good as the 07 unit. Rationale:

• OLB Depth - advantage 2007, Thomas, Vrabel & Colvin have a clear advantage over Thomas, Vrabel and (Crable or Woods), the lack of pass rushers behind the front 2 really concerns me
• ILB Depth - even - Seau was the best ILB on the team last year, if he returns the ILB will be very deep, if not a rotation of Bruschi, Hobson and Mayo should still be pretty good
• 2007 Bruschi versus 2008 Bruschi - advantage 2007 - all of us love #54 but he was a shell of himself last year, as he gets older don't expect the trend to reverse
• Hobson - should be ok as a 3rd or 4th option, if he is a primary option at either ILB position he will have difficulty

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

As players age, they slow down, but gain experience to compensate.

What they cannot compensate for, is the time it takes to recovery, from a long sprint, or a tough blitz. Older players just need more time. There is a kernel of truth in the the old adage that goes:

"I may not be able to do it as well as I once was; but I can do it as well, ONCE, as I ever was."

You can win with older players, as long as you can allow them to pace themselves, or force them to do it. Belichick does both.

That means platooning and depth. BB does both; He tries to have a better than average sub, particularly an ex-starter experienced veteran, at every position, and the sub actually gets snaps. Some coaches seem to want a good sub everywhere and then never use them.

Secondly his team is multiple, on purpose. It makes it more possible to be able to find a Defense that works against any Offense; and vice versa. But he changes play by play, too. One play may call for a 3-4 set, the next a 4-3 look.

Doing this allows him to call on other players and their talents. An unrecognized benefit though is, the new play forces the opponents away from the previous spear point who perhaps has worn down and needs a breather to recover. Not all players are equally adept doing all
the things a "complete" player or star must be able to do. Many players are adept at one thing and less adept elsewhere.

Belichick exploits this versatile ability, if he can. He goes and looks for it in his players. If it a pass play coming up, he expects that a Phifer is a better pass defender than say a Ted Runstuffer. There are plays for each that take advantage of each players best talent.

It is old shallow teams that can't allow their old players a blow, that do the sudden collapses from 10-6 one year, to 4-12 the next. There has been lots of transition through the Pats LB corps in BB's 7 seasons. Just try to run through the roll of LBs. It gets pretty long.

In that entire time there are only two LB players that BB erred on. IMHO. He tried to develop Beisel and was forced to play him too soon; and he kept Chad Brown/Larry Izzo and lost Justin ??? trying to put him on the PS. Justin ??? is now the prime OLB reserve, behind Demarco Ware, having passed Carpenter, Ayodele and several others, on the Cowboys.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

In that entire time there are only two LB players that BB erred on. IMHO. He tried to develop Beisel and was forced to play him too soon; and he kept Chad Brown/Larry Izzo and lost Justin ??? trying to put him on the PS. Justin ??? is now the prime OLB reserve, behind Demarco Ware, having passed Carpenter, Ayodele and several others, on the Cowboys.

Justin Rogers.

OTOH, I'll bring up the same "glass-half-full" point that I've made before--Rogers is scheduled to become an RFA in 2010, because he only signed a three-year deal with the Pats (and, when you pick up a rookie, you pick up the remaining terms of his contract, which can't be renegotiated for two seasons from the time he was drafted).

 

[PSU]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

The story on his free agency is that many teams were after him and he said he would visit one team and one team only - The Patriots. That has many of us excited.

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/sp_fbn_patriots_passing_camp21_05-21-08_PJA7D_v8.357de9c.html

Plus, many say he was played out of position with The Jets, and at 6'0, 252 lbs, is perfectly suited to be moved inside in the 3-4, where the Pats plan to play him.

Heck, even if he was out of position, he still posted 100 tacles and 6 sacks in '06, so he produced regardless. On top of it all, he's only 28. There is alot there to get excited about.

Excellent post....I liked this guy prior to the the Pats signing him and was pretty excited when they signed him. Typical Pats' JAG pickup- just add a little Kool Aid to the mix and watch him go. I need some FOOTBALL!!!

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

Pretty scary, too, that 3 out of 4 are over 30 and 2 out of 4 are, by LB standards, well over 30 and no one's getting any younger. If you bring back Seau and he's first off the bench as many expect, then make that 3 out of 5 as well over 30.

Interesting article I read recently (I won't link here since it would probably get me banned--you all wouldn't like it, trust me) honed in on how the fact that the Pats almost always played from well ahead meant your LBs didn't need to chase folks down in the running game and (a) expend a lot of energy doing so and (b) take the constant hits that come from a grind it out attack. In games you did, the author says, like the SB, the LBs looked old and slow. Haven't gone back and watched other games, but I have watched the SB enough to think he was right about that one. Will be interesting to see if other coaches noticed the same thing. Of course, not playing from way behind may not be something other teams can control if your O plays like last year's......

This post just emphasizes why many are excited. We expect to see two, three, or more of the following players added to the mix of LB's, making the unit much younger:

1. Mayo, 22 years old
2. Crable, 23 years old
3. Hobson, 28 years old
4. Guyton, 22 years old
5. Redd, 22 years old
6. Ruud, 23 years old

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

Hobson is a JAG. He couldn't get a multi-year deal anywhere. He settled for a crappy offer from the Pats for one year. I hope he works out, but I'm not counting on it.

Didn't you say the same thing about Wes Welker? That trade worked out pretty well for us...

 

[rabthepat]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

You must be fun at parties.

You should see me at SB parties when my team favored by 14 points chokes to Eli Manning and the Giants. I am a ball of joy.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

You should see me at SB parties when my team favored by 14 points chokes to Eli Manning and the Giants. I am a ball of joy.

You deserve to be a Jet's fan ... you would have more to complain about.

 

[patsox23]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

Didn't you say the same thing about Wes Welker? That trade worked out pretty well for us...

First of all, nice rhetorical pivot, but NO. Secondly, my issue with Welker is that I felt we gave up too much for him - and paid him too much. I was wrong.

Would you please please PLEASE bet me on whether or not Hobson has THAT kind of impact on this team? Oh, and can you also acknowledge that there's a huge difference between BB trading a 2nd rounder and giving a long-term deal for Welker and BB giving a crappy one-year deal to a guy who couldn't find a job ANYWHERE in the NFL outside of N.E. and SF?

I'll look forward to your answer.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

First of all, nice rhetorical pivot, but NO. Secondly, my issue with Welker is that I felt we gave up too much for him - and paid him too much. I was wrong.

Would you please please PLEASE bet me on whether or not Hobson has THAT kind of impact on this team? Oh, and can you also acknowledge that there's a huge difference between BB trading a 2nd rounder and giving a long-term deal for Welker and BB giving a crappy one-year deal to a guy who couldn't find a job ANYWHERE in the NFL outside of N.E. and SF?

I'll look forward to your answer.

See, that's the thing about playing out of position for two years, effectively no one knows your worth. Why would Belichick give a long term, lucrative deal to a player he is transitioning from 3-4 OLB to ILB? Why would anyone give such a player a lucrative deal?

The availability of Hobson in March has nothing to do with how well he will play for the Patriots in September.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

See, that's the thing about playing out of position for two years, effectively no one knows your worth. Why would Belichick give a long term, lucrative deal to a player he is transitioning from 3-4 OLB to ILB? Why would anyone give such a player a lucrative deal?

The availability of Hobson in March has nothing to do with how well he will play for the Patriots in September.

You're exactly right. Not only that, but the fact is that other teams were also after him. We've already been through that.

 

[flyonthewall]

Regardless of personnel, the LB corp will benefit from the addition of Capers. He will not directly impact them with his coaching but his being there will free up other coaches to better do their jobs. Last year the DB coach was unable to do his job so Pees had to take over his job in addition to his regular DC duties. BB had to take time away from his HC duties to help out with the front seven. Now they have a competent DB coach will allows Pees to return his focus to DC and front seven which is where his strengths are.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Regardless of personnel, the LB corp will benefit from the addition of Capers. He will not directly impact them with his coaching but his being there will free up other coaches to better do their jobs. Last year the DB coach was unable to do his job so Pees had to take over his job in addition to his regular DC duties. BB had to take time away from his HC duties to help out with the front seven. Now they have a competent DB coach will allows Pees to return his focus to DC and front seven which is where his strengths are.

Interesting point, that I didn't really even consider. A talented coach like Capers has got to be a positive. One thing is for sure, and that is that he has some talented athletes now to coach in the defensive backfield. That too bears watching.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: This LB Corp Could be Dominant!

See, that's the thing about playing out of position for two years, effectively no one knows your worth. Why would Belichick give a long term, lucrative deal to a player he is transitioning from 3-4 OLB to ILB? Why would anyone give such a player a lucrative deal?

The availability of Hobson in March has nothing to do with how well he will play for the Patriots in September.

Exactly so. That's the point I was looking to make, but you put it quite efficiently.

First of all, nice rhetorical pivot, but NO. Secondly, my issue with Welker is that I felt we gave up too much for him - and paid him too much. I was wrong.

Oh, so you HAVE been wrong in your evaluation of Patriots personnel pickups before? Why couldn't this be the case now with Hobson?

Would you please please PLEASE bet me on whether or not Hobson has THAT kind of impact on this team? Oh, and can you also acknowledge that there's a huge difference between BB trading a 2nd rounder and giving a long-term deal for Welker and BB giving a crappy one-year deal to a guy who couldn't find a job ANYWHERE in the NFL outside of N.E. and SF?

I'll look forward to your answer.

Hobson was a very low risk pickup with a chance to become a solid starter for us. Why you would be so down on him is beyond me. You can't even jump up and down and holler in indignation that we gave up a draft pick for him. As has been stated before, but perhaps you did not pick up on, the NY Jets were misusing Hobson and were playing him out of position at OLB when he had previously been quite productive at ILB. Hobson just didn't get a fair shake in NY.

"The transition from Gang Green to the Patriots, and the jersey switch from No. 54 to 59, aren't the only changes for Hobson. He's also making a position change - after playing outside linebacker in the Jets' 3-4 alignment the last two seasons, he's focusing more at inside linebacker in the Patriots' 3-4 scheme."
http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...08/05/08/ex_jet_set_to_show_his_worth/?page=2

The Patriots, being rather astute evaluators of personnel that could fit into their system scooped him up with a 1 year prove it deal. That's the normal Pats modus operandi. I will say that I think Hobson can have a similar impact as previous Pats free agent pickups such as Roman Phifer and Vrabel who have worked out quite nicely for us.