This is...Why Cassel?

[AzPatsFan]

Most of what PM is saying makes sense, although the one proviso is that I did not see much improvement compared to the Maimi game he played well in. For the moment all they did was keep the status quo, as only Guitterez has PS eligilibility and is unlikely to be picked up. They can still make changes, as necessary going into the season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AzPatsFan
Fans didn't see that, and only noticed raw rookie KOC going against 3rd and 4th string future UPS truck drivers, and NOT running the Offense, but merely scrambling around and improvising. That is what you expect from a rookie, who would get killed doing that against a first string.


However, I think AZPatsFan is being a little hard on Kevin; for a rookie he did what was expected of him and he never had the chance to play against the 1st stringers. However, maybe this is a reaction to other posters.

I think the scrambling and the improvisation and the passing arm, revealed that KO'C has a future. It showed that it was not a wasted draft pick. KO'C has a future but it's in 2010 and not now...

Brady didn't start his rookie year either...

 

[arrellbee]

AzPatsFan - interesting read. You may have the gist of it.

However, let me throw out a couple other thoughts for discussion.

I have come to believe that Belichick doesn't come close to attaching the importance that we fans do in having a sound (much less top) QB backup, strange as that may sound.

But keeping Cassel seems to add to something of a pattern along those lines.

A few years back, Rohan Davey had demonstrated clearly that he had 5 or more critical flaws that meant he simply couldn't even come close to being a productive QB on the field. And yet Belichick kept him around for one more year anyway. Since Belichick later let him go - and Davey subsequently proved for other teams that he indeed was totally inept as a productive NFL QB, that leads me to believe that Belichick was just filling the position with someone who had the experience with the playbook and was an arm to run the scout team during practice. I can't really think of any other reason why he would keep a totally flawed QB.

Now we have Cassel who has at least 3 pretty glaring and deadly flaws of his own. He doesn't appear to be able to make 2 much less 3 reads. He appears to stare down his receivers giving the savvy NFL DBs golden opportunities to jump routes. And he doesn't really seem to have that much pocket savvy (witness a few of the sacks, although certainly not all). And lo and behold, he's still on the roster. My bet is he has zero chance of making the roster next year. But for now, he's the guy with the experience with the playbook and running the team in practice and, as I say, I'm not sure in Belichick's priorities, allocating resource to getting the backup QB we all think the Patriots 'have to have', is high on his list.

Just my thoughts.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Interesting observation. I'll have to think about that for a while.

 

[spacecrime]

Mark my words....when their careers are all said and done....Gutz will have had a better career than Matty Cassel........

For Gutierrez, all is already said and done. It's over for him.

The Patriots cut him and no one claimed him off waivers.

Teams showed the same interest in him they showed on draft day: No interest. Zilch. Nada.

I think you can close the book on Gutierrez' career.

Cassel? It remains to be seen. My guess is that he is in the NFL next year, but not as a Patriot.

The truth will set you free. But first it will piss you off.

 

[D-cleater]

I think the scrambling and the improvisation and the passing arm, revealed that KO'C has a future. It showed that it was not a wasted draft pick. KO'C has a future but it's in 2010 and not now...

Brady didn't start his rookie year either...

What , in his first preseason ,*would* have told you that O Connell is a wasted draft pick? If he looked as bad as Cassell?

Cassell didn't "send Vinnie to the shadow roster" , I'm afraid. Vinnie proved he should be retired. Do you think Vinnie and Flutie would have been brought in if BB had confidence in Cassell? Do you think an undrafted FA would have stuck around a year and half, and 3rd round pick spent on a QB if BB was comfortable with Cassell running the offense?

Dude, I respect your opinion but stop fantasizing. O connell was drafted to be the backup QB. By all accounts he should be by week 16.

I'm afraid Belichick did not ask Cassell to be a "goat" this preseason. He asked him to go out and practice executing a basic offense. He asked him to show that he can check down. He asked him to find the open receiver. He did not ask Cassell to go three and out with the first team offense so he could better evaluate other players. The only thing Cassell did , as you correctly point out, was not lose his job to Gutierrez.

Regarding O connell, I didn't see him merely scramble around and improvise, I saw him make plays. I saw him make adjustments ( one for a TD). I saw him avoid the sack. I saw him find the open man. It's not just what I expect from a rookie, its what I expect from a QB. I saw him make players around him better, while I saw Cassell fail to hit a wide open Randy Moss. Thats what I saw. But I'm not into fantasizing about secret ulterior motives of BB, I like to think it is common sense that has made him successful.

 

[spacecrime]

My bet is he has zero chance of making the roster next year.

Yeah, but two days ago you guys were saying the same thing about THIS year

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If Vinny was under conract to the Panthers when he retired, he remains their property. But I think he was only signed for that season. Can't be bothered to research it though 'cause it ain't gonna happen...

To be clear, if VT was only signed for one year--as I believe he was--he would be a UFA at this point, and therefore could sign with anyone. [Favre still had three(?) years left, thus he was still Packers' property, as it were.]

 

[AzPatsFan]

What , in his first preseason ,*would* have told you that O Connell is a wasted draft pick? If he looked as bad as Cassell?

Cassell didn't "send Vinnie to the shadow roster" , I'm afraid. Vinnie proved he should be retired. Do you think Vinnie and Flutie would have been brought in if BB had confidence in Cassell? Do you think an undrafted FA would have stuck around a year and half, and 3rd round pick spent on a QB if BB was comfortable with Cassell running the offense?

Dude, I respect your opinion but stop fantasizing. O connell was drafted to be the backup QB. By all accounts he should be by week 16.

I'm afraid Belichick did not ask Cassell to be a "goat" this preseason. He asked him to go out and practice executing a basic offense. He asked him to show that he can check down. He asked him to find the open receiver. He did not ask Cassell to go three and out with the first team offense so he could better evaluate other players. The only thing Cassell did , as you correctly point out, was not lose his job to Gutierrez.

Regarding O connell, I didn't see him merely scramble around and improvise, I saw him make plays. I saw him make adjustments ( one for a TD). I saw him avoid the sack. I saw him find the open man. It's not just what I expect from a rookie, its what I expect from a QB. I saw him make players around him better, while I saw Cassell fail to hit a wide open Randy Moss. Thats what I saw. But I'm not into fantasizing about secret ulterior motives of BB, I like to think it is common sense that has made him successful.

I don't disagree with you. KO'C has more raw talent than Matt Cassel. But the 16th game you speak of, is in the 2010 season...
I'm willing to give the rook a chance to develop . Why aren't you D?

 

[stcjones]

AzPatsFan - interesting read. You may have the gist of it.

However, let me throw out a couple other thoughts for discussion.

I have come to believe that Belichick doesn't come close to attaching the importance that we fans do in having a sound (much less top) QB backup, strange as that may sound.

But keeping Cassel seems to add to something of a pattern along those lines.

A few years back, Rohan Davey had demonstrated clearly that he had 5 or more critical flaws that meant he simply couldn't even come close to being a productive QB on the field. And yet Belichick kept him around for one more year anyway. Since Belichick later let him go - and Davey subsequently proved for other teams that he indeed was totally inept as a productive NFL QB, that leads me to believe that Belichick was just filling the position with someone who had the experience with the playbook and was an arm to run the scout team during practice. I can't really think of any other reason why he would keep a totally flawed QB.

Now we have Cassel who has at least 3 pretty glaring and deadly flaws of his own. He doesn't appear to be able to make 2 much less 3 reads. He appears to stare down his receivers giving the savvy NFL DBs golden opportunities to jump routes. And he doesn't really seem to have that much pocket savvy (witness a few of the sacks, although certainly not all). And lo and behold, he's still on the roster. My bet is he has zero chance of making the roster next year. But for now, he's the guy with the experience with the playbook and running the team in practice and, as I say, I'm not sure in Belichick's priorities, allocating resource to getting the backup QB we all think the Patriots 'have to have', is high on his list.

Just my thoughts.

Appreciate the thoughts.....but it makes no sense to me to "just fill the position" at one of the most IMPORTANT positions with a "flawed" QB. We are one hit away from a serious problem in our offense (going from one of the best in the league ...to average at best).....and it is not a concern of BB's.......I don't get it....

 

[PatsFan37]

Finally as a sop, to reward Cassel he gave him Randy Moss and company for an extended first period and Cassel promptly completed passes, marched the field, unlike the other two while executing the Offense, only to have Faulk fumble in the red zone. Another time a drive lead to a FG. He also scrambled showing he had not lost his mobility when necessary. It was a good scramble started only when the play had broken down; and he was flushed from the pocket, not an instant panic run.

This is a bit revisionary. I've been one of the few not calling for Cassel's head, but that doesn't mean I think he had a good camp. Cassel would have had another preseason interception if the defender hadn't dropped an easy one, and that was from staring down a wide open Moss.

In the fourth game, Cassel started out horribly before settling down and having one decent series. Let's be realistic. He's looked good a few times, but he's looked bad more than a few times.

Cassel made the team because Gutierrez is worse and O'Connell isn't ready. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Cassel gets to FA and no one signs him and the Pats take him back and cut him at the end of next year's camp. Hey, it's a job for the summer playing football. He knows the system and would be insurance that all goes well with O'Connell. Naturally, if Cassel gets a contract anywhere else he'd be a fool not to take it.

 

[mcbee]

Cassel is brady's budy, maybe they didn't want to hurt Brady's feelings. They are very "close", not that there's anything wrong with that.

Cassel is useless but he makes a good tackling dummy. Look for Brady to rest the first 8 games of the season.

 

[JoeSixPat]

This is a bit revisionary. I've been one of the few not calling for Cassel's head, but that doesn't mean I think he had a good camp. Cassel would have had another preseason interception if the defender hadn't dropped an easy one, and that was from staring down a wide open Moss.

In the fourth game, Cassel started out horribly before settling down and having one decent series. Let's be realistic. He's looked good a few times, but he's looked bad more than a few times.

Cassel made the team because Gutierrez is worse and O'Connell isn't ready. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Cassel gets to FA and no one signs him and the Pats take him back and cut him at the end of next year's camp. Hey, it's a job for the summer playing football. He knows the system and would be insurance that all goes well with O'Connell. Naturally, if Cassel gets a contract anywhere else he'd be a fool not to take it.

My feelings exactly. Cassell had some bad luck in pre-season games with dropped passes but overall I can't convince myself that he looked good or poised in the pocket. If anythying the rookie looked more comfortable than he did.

The bottom line though is that Belichick determined that keeping three QBs with Cassell being one of them was the way to go.

My feeling is that if Cassell were cut, no one would pick him up and he'd be a shadow roster candidate if we needed him... and that if Brady were healthy through the preseason that's exactly what would have happened.

Is it taking a risk that we'd need to call in the backup QB in a game and that Cassell's performances over O'Connell's is viewed as a huge improvement? I guess - but if Brady goes down for any length of time my hopes and expectations have dropped off dramatically anyways.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

AzPatsFan - interesting read. You may have the gist of it.

However, let me throw out a couple other thoughts for discussion.

I have come to believe that Belichick doesn't come close to attaching the importance that we fans do in having a sound (much less top) QB backup, strange as that may sound.

But keeping Cassel seems to add to something of a pattern along those lines.

A few years back, Rohan Davey had demonstrated clearly that he had 5 or more critical flaws that meant he simply couldn't even come close to being a productive QB on the field. And yet Belichick kept him around for one more year anyway. Since Belichick later let him go - and Davey subsequently proved for other teams that he indeed was totally inept as a productive NFL QB, that leads me to believe that Belichick was just filling the position with someone who had the experience with the playbook and was an arm to run the scout team during practice. I can't really think of any other reason why he would keep a totally flawed QB.

Now we have Cassel who has at least 3 pretty glaring and deadly flaws of his own. He doesn't appear to be able to make 2 much less 3 reads. He appears to stare down his receivers giving the savvy NFL DBs golden opportunities to jump routes. And he doesn't really seem to have that much pocket savvy (witness a few of the sacks, although certainly not all). And lo and behold, he's still on the roster. My bet is he has zero chance of making the roster next year. But for now, he's the guy with the experience with the playbook and running the team in practice and, as I say, I'm not sure in Belichick's priorities, allocating resource to getting the backup QB we all think the Patriots 'have to have', is high on his list.

Just my thoughts.

Bill has made it clear it is not. He doesn't see the upside in spending 2-3 times as much for a backup you have to ooverpay to teach the offense to annually if he can even grasp it let alone remotely function in it because unless they are starting somewhere else, and often even then, the other available candidates are equally flawed and often those flaws are the between the ears ones he simply cannot tolerate. He and his pro personnel people see that on film, while fans here seldom see more than selectively edited highlights of some of these stiffs on ESPN...

FWIW Rohan was never alone here as the backup and was only ever #2 in name only once because the Bears veteran QB (Jim Miller) acquired to be the #2 was coming back from a shoulder injury that never really fully healed as the season unfolded. Rohan was selected based on Bill's belief that his pal Saban was more than a defensive genius... He learned a lesson there I believe about Saban's grasp of offenses and the pro style game. Next guy he picked came later in the draft and endorsed/developed by Pete Carroll. Pete's developmental NFL QB track record may be taking a hit lately, but at the time it beat throwing darts...

Sad fact is only a handful of college players are even deemed worthy of a shot at that position annually and most of them never make it beyond JAG journeyman status. In a league looking for at least 64 guys who can actually win games with some consistency, Bill's approach is probably predicated on balancing unavoidable risk vs. potential reward. He'd rather try to mold a kid with some potential than waste time teaching his offense to some guy whose been in and bombed out of so many divergent systems he's been rendered useless.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Cassel is brady's budy, maybe they didn't want to hurt Brady's feelings. They are very "close", not that there's anything wrong with that.

Cassel is useless but he makes a good tackling dummy. Look for Brady to rest the first 8 games of the season.

More worthless :blahblah: drivel courtesy of our resident troll...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What , in his first preseason ,*would* have told you that O Connell is a wasted draft pick? If he looked as bad as Cassell?

Cassell didn't "send Vinnie to the shadow roster" , I'm afraid. Vinnie proved he should be retired. Do you think Vinnie and Flutie would have been brought in if BB had confidence in Cassell? Do you think an undrafted FA would have stuck around a year and half, and 3rd round pick spent on a QB if BB was comfortable with Cassell running the offense?

Dude, I respect your opinion but stop fantasizing. O connell was drafted to be the backup QB. By all accounts he should be by week 16.

I'm afraid Belichick did not ask Cassell to be a "goat" this preseason. He asked him to go out and practice executing a basic offense. He asked him to show that he can check down. He asked him to find the open receiver. He did not ask Cassell to go three and out with the first team offense so he could better evaluate other players. The only thing Cassell did , as you correctly point out, was not lose his job to Gutierrez.

Regarding O connell, I didn't see him merely scramble around and improvise, I saw him make plays. I saw him make adjustments ( one for a TD). I saw him avoid the sack. I saw him find the open man. It's not just what I expect from a rookie, its what I expect from a QB. I saw him make players around him better, while I saw Cassell fail to hit a wide open Randy Moss. Thats what I saw. But I'm not into fantasizing about secret ulterior motives of BB, I like to think it is common sense that has made him successful.

Cassel did send Vinny to the shadow roster where he made the mistake of seeking active employment rather than taking Bill's cue he just sit home. He also sent Flutie into the broadcast booth by Flutie's own admission. Neither of them wanted to be 3's and both understood that Cassel was the 2. As for why they were brought in, Bill has explained his rationale several times when you apparently weren't listening. They were intended primarily to be veteran mentors and sounding boards (to Brady as well as the developmental QB) on a staff that does not include a dedicated QB's position coach (the OC here has handled that job almost exclusively since 2001). Bill doesn't consider a player to be a true veteran presence until he's been in the league 7-8 years and essentially seen it all (the good and the bad times). Brady btw is now that veteran presence. They were also emergency QB's who could come in in the event of an in game injury. That is why they often filled the #3 emergency slot. For a long term problem Bill would have coached up the youngster because he knew what the other two could not do long term (see Vinny in Carolina...).

I think it's interesting to note that some of the problems that plagued Cassel trying to run this offense against first team D's in the pre season seem to be being dealt with in the last 48 hours...in case that is lost on some of you. I'm just glad Tommy didn't have to deal with the crap that was the 2008 pre season 'cause poised though he may be Tommy might just have been tempted to deck a couple of people over the course of the last 3 weeks...

 

[RayClay]

Did you even bother to read what the OP wrote, or were you blinded by your hating on matt glasses?

I read it and I can't believe the OP isn't being employed by one of the current political campaigns.

I believe Moss and Gaffney have a little experience in the league and he didn't manage to hook up with them much. News flash, he's not the only back up looking to win a job throwing to receivers or with linemen that are less than stellar. If that was the criterion every awful quarterback cut would have a case (excuse) for sticking.

Guttierrez PS eligible, Cassel not...end of story.

 

[pheenix11]

This deserves a bump. Good post, almost prophetic. We are going to be just fine with Cassel.

 

[spacecrime]

Sounds nice but I can't see us winning any game if Cassel is the starter.

0-15 as a starter?

Personally, I give Cassel, not Brady, the win against KC, but that's just me.

 

[PATRIOT64]

0-15 as a starter?

Personally, I give Cassel, not Brady, the win against KC, but that's just me.

Personally I give the Defense with a goaline stand the credit for the win against KC instead of heading into overtime,But that's just me

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Personally I give the Defense with a goaline stand the credit for the win against KC instead of heading into overtime,But that's just me

If you recall, the D created that goaline situation by their poor coverage. They were simply cleaning up after their mess. Cassel had 'won' the game after coming in cold after previous failed drives by the offense. The D was simply in a self-inflicted position to lose it. They stood up to the KC offensive juggernaught and prevailed. Thanks Deltha.