Welcome to PatsFans.com

This is...Why Cassel?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AzPatsFan, Aug 31, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,137
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +207 / 19 / -10

    Cassel survived. Many fans do not believe it.

    But all you have to do is put on your Bill Belichick glasses to see why. Cassel is not a starter, but he did send Vinnie to the shadow roster last season. And Gutierrez to the PS.
    Off those experiences, Bill asked Cassel to be the sacrificial goat this preseason and do some specific things in preseason, for the good of the Team.

    First to test and act like a tackling dummy if necessary, as Bill experimented with various OL pickups, to try and replace Neal for half a season. He did that, without complaint, and Brady had times to heal, and most importantly not get hurt.

    Then Secondly, he asked Cassel to play with no receivers, except for a bunch of end-of-roster types, to see if any of them were worth keeping. Dutifully, Cassel did so without complaint, while maintaining his POISE despite wrong routes, dropped passes, mis-timings et cetera, and try to run the entire Patriots Offense, even if in vanilla form for the rookies, despite the breakdowns of the others.

    He did so and PASSED the test with calm and no finger-pointing. He accepted the fact that the QB would be blamed for failure, despite sending scrub receivers and OL candidates out against first string opponents by and large.

    Fans didn't see that, and only noticed raw rookie KOC going against 3rd and 4th string future UPS truck drivers, and NOT running the Offense, but merely scrambling around and improvising. That is what you expect from a rookie, who would get killed doing that against a first string.

    At the same time Gutierrez showed that he has a little more knowledge but still reverts to dumb raw rookie tendencies. He essentially eliminated himself, by his dangerous passes, many more of which would get picked against a first string.

    Through it all Cassel only threw one pick. That was when CJax did not read a blitz, and ran the wrong pattern. It was a horrible looking pick as the defender easily caught it, and Jackson was no where near the ball, but it wasn't Cassel that screwed up.

    Finally as a sop, to reward Cassel he gave him Randy Moss and company for an extended first period and Cassel promptly completed passes, marched the field, unlike the other two while executing the Offense, only to have Faulk fumble in the red zone. Another time a drive lead to a FG. He also scrambled showing he had not lost his mobility when necessary. It was a good scramble started only when the play had broken down; and he was flushed from the pocket, not an instant panic run.

    That small opportunity playing with most of the genuine first stringers, reassured Belichick that Cassel had not lost his POISE or ability, despite the short end of the stick job that he had been given, for so long.


    Bill even let Gutierrez have the first stringers in an early appearance against the Giants and it confimed that Gutz is not ready yet. That confirmed that the dangerous passes did indeed become picks. Maybe next year Gutz and KOC, will mature enough and will fight for th 2nd string job.

    Meanwhile... Vinny is still on the shadow roster, knows the Offense backward and forward, and is on Bill's speed dial.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1 / -0

    0 touchdowns and similar yardage, blame the line or whomever, cassel found a way to look anxious in the pocket and still not get the ball out on time..... Maybe they don't think Gut is ready, fine. But i would not surprised to see Cassel lopped off this roster at some point. They kept him and they only know why.
  3. kencc

    kencc Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Gut has PS eligibility & cassell does not
  4. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,779
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    #17 Jersey

    Did you even bother to read what the OP wrote, or were you blinded by your hating on matt glasses?
  5. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    153
    Ratings:
    +321 / 5 / -5

    Best explanation I've seen yet.

    This is the one thing I have to disagree with. My understanding is that at least some of the "improvising" was in fact designed that way. Randy Cross et al. stated that at least some of his runs were called as such (i.e., "Kevin, you take the ball and run upfield.").

    We're talking about a guy who basically had to scramble on nearly every play in college. It's natural to assume he's going to take some time to "calm down," as it were. No questioning his arm strength or speed, though. :)
  6. Brady to Brown

    Brady to Brown Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,893
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Great post I agree 100%.
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,189
    Likes Received:
    164
    Ratings:
    +276 / 18 / -43

    #50 Jersey

    VinnyT is officially retired after he got hurt playing for the Panthers. He'd have to file re-instatement papers and I just don't see it happening.
  8. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Cassel showed a lot of poise this preseason. Yeah, he didn't put up great stats, but the game isn't about numbers. Cassel may have valuable leadership and play-reading skills that we're not able to see.

    But, next time you have the chance, look at how he holds himself in the pocket, his technique, and the zip he puts on the ball. Now go watch some other backup around the league, like Kellen Clemens, and tell me that Cassel doesn't look better than them. I think you'd be surprised.

    I'm not surprised the average fan reacted negatively to his playbut that's what happens when you don't bomb it 50 yards into the in zone twice a game, or throw for two or three touchdowns in a quarter.. Personally, I thought he looked good, even if he didn't score many points. It's likely that Cassel showed more to BB and the rest of the team during practice than he did to us during the preseason. Unlike many here, I never saw him panic or lose control. He stood up straight in the pocket, looked down his receivers, and stepped up into protection when the line began to break down.

    Cries for his release were typical over-reactions from fans who ultimately know very little about the position or the game.

    When Tom Brady came out and said he thought Cassel played well, perhaps we should not have been so dismissive.

    I think the OP is spot on here. Great post.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  9. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,137
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +207 / 19 / -10

    I agree wholeheartedly. If you can add a play to the Offense called "Kevin, you run the ball". But the important point is, its not a part of the standard Offense repertoire.
  10. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    153
    Ratings:
    +321 / 5 / -5

    Why should it be a part of the standard O repertoire? Brady isn't as fast, so plays that might get O'Connell 10 yards might get Brady only 2. It doesn't mean, though, that they can't judge O'Connell based on how he executed the plays they called for him. . . .
  11. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,137
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +207 / 19 / -10

    That also removes him from the Panthers reserve list, making him available to come back to the Patriots, just like Seau. Plus Vinnie played last year, so he is still only a preseason removed from playing, not a year and a half away fronm the NFL.

    That is a plus not a drawback, IMHO.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  12. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Great post, and I agree.
  13. roguepatriot

    roguepatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Most of what PM is saying makes sense, although the one proviso is that I did not see much improvement compared to the Maimi game he played well in. For the moment all they did was keep the status quo, as only Guitterez has PS eligilibility and is unlikely to be picked up. They can still make changes, as necessary going into the season.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AzPatsFan
    Fans didn't see that, and only noticed raw rookie KOC going against 3rd and 4th string future UPS truck drivers, and NOT running the Offense, but merely scrambling around and improvising. That is what you expect from a rookie, who would get killed doing that against a first string.


    However, I think AZPatsFan is being a little hard on Kevin; for a rookie he did what was expected of him and he never had the chance to play against the 1st stringers. However, maybe this is a reaction to other posters.
  14. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,687
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +18 / 8 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Wow......were you in the war room as they drew these pre-season schemes for cassel out? Are you saying that you were there when BB told Cassel that he wanted him to play as badly as he possibly could? How did you get this kind of clearance into the Pats camp man? Please explain!

    Mark my words....when their careers are all said and done....Gutz will have had a better career than Matty Cassel........
  15. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,865
    Likes Received:
    390
    Ratings:
    +1,138 / 52 / -64

    Disable Jersey

    Done.......
  16. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    BOTTOM LINE: Excuses for fumbles ect aside...

    Cassel could NOT take the team into the end zone ONCE in all the tries in preseason and he DID NOT face 1st stringers every play so for the Cassel ball washers lets not make it sound like he played against pro bowlers all the time throughout the preseason because he did not and besides he is the #2 going into the preseason so he is expected to play against higher rated players whcih of course he failed miserably

    0 for whatever in preseason TDs means you suck dog balls anyway you slice it

    Unfortunately for Guiterrez, who actually had some decent throws including actually taking the team into the end zone - did not perform when it was most important,and that was in the 4th preseason game,It might have been his worst showing of all 4 games and at the wrong time to do it thus Cassel gets the nod because he did not suck as bad (if that possible) as Gutz did in the 4th preseason game.

    O'Connell is a rookie QB - Enough said there,give him another year or two and he will probably be the #2 barring any vet signing before then
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    It's only a drawback if you watched him play. With the exception of the gimme TD for the record in a won game and the drop kick, all Bill ever let his ancient veteran QB's do was mentor or take a knee. Because on some level he knew that that is about all they can do for more than a drive or two. He might have inserted them to finish a game if Brady had gone down, but he'd have had the younger QB coached up to step in if Brady were out any longer.

    But except for the speed dial comment, great post. Although I'm not sure about that reserve list comment. That's the list Farve was on and he remained the property of the Packers when he changed his mind. I believe Junior had been released, and only retired when no one else expressed interest. He unretired once Bill did. If Vinny was under conract to the Panthers when he retired, he remains their property. But I think he was only signed for that season. Can't be bothered to research it though 'cause it ain't gonna happen...
  18. carolinatony

    carolinatony Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Sounds nice but I can't see us winning any game if Cassel is the starter.
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

    If O'Connell isn't the #2 in another year or two he'll be a bust like CJ because of his draft position...
  20. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Right. I'm sure you're a better quarterbacks scout than Bill Belicheck and the Patriots staff. Please. You're embarassing yourself.

    I watched the Giants pre-season game tonight. Gutz's body language tells it all. He doesn't let the plays develop because he gets way too nervous. The interception he threw was a horrible pass, and one of many in which he did not let the play develop. He's scared of the blitz. He is lucky it got called back because the Giants defender couldn't keep a hold on the ball.

    Did I mention his awful pick in the end zone? The one where CJax fell down? Gutz didn't even look at the play. He took two steps back and let the ball go, and it cost them a potential touchdown. Yeah, CJ shouldn't have fallen down, but Gutz didn't even look. The announcer even made a comment about what a terrible play it was. The guy obviously didn't earn a spot on the roster if he was beaten out by a rookie.

    Maybe this will light a fire under his ass, and he'll sign with another team and turn into a decent starter. The Patriots just didn't see it.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>