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This is the guy who handled Suh

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by State, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. State

    State Rookie

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    #70 Jersey

  2. BritPat

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    #54 Jersey

    Not a Pats style OG.
  3. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    It was not simply that he is big,it is his tremendous first step for a guy that big. Texas Tech OL plays with huge splits, normally Suh would be through those splits in a heartbeat, but Carter was too quick for him that day.
  4. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I am not sure about that, he may be bigger than usual but Tech plays in a very pass oriented offense (empty sets, etc.). IMO we could use a few road graders, short yardage has not exactly been our strength.
  5. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    I think that is a function of having a small center, it makes the middle tough to get any push. Mankins and Neal can road grade, but Koppen gets no significant push that I can see.

    And if Koppen was great at pulling,then I could see his value, but I really see Koppen pulling,so I just don't get what BB sees in him.
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Consistent ball handling coupled with his ability to make correct line calls. He's technically proficient with his technique and also quite agile on screens and the occasional pulling block. It's clear Dante and Bill like consistency in their ball handlers and will forgive some warts to know they will get a specific result they like.
  7. Box_O_Rocks

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    I concur, he's more of a Dallas, Chicago, Pittsburgh bulldozer type.
  8. SidelineSid

    SidelineSid Rookie

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    I hear you. He does have his strong points. The problem is short yardage situations. We can't run on other teams in those situations because he usually gets pushed back. I don't think he's an every down player. If he was, I think the Pats could at least keep Faulk in the back field on 4th and 2. Against the small defensive line of the Colts, they blitzed up the middle and got pressure on the quarterback. That was why Brady was only able to make one read to Faulk, when Welker was open.

    I'm not saying that he's a bad player, but his short comings helped make us come up short as a team when it really counted.
  9. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    So does BB try to upgrade the position or stick with a tried and true player, less the push on short yardage?
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are several other big OGs with good quickness and feet. Mike Iupati is 6'6" 330# with very good quickness, and Vlad Ducasse (6'5" 328#) and junior Gabe Carimi (6'7" 325#) are both extremely powerful but played OT in college, and have good movement for guards. I think that kind of player would do a lot of helping Koppen out with the big guys on the interior.
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is there a Center in this draft who can do all the things Koppen does well now, and upgrades the bulldozer aspect? NFL Draft Scout has BC's 291 pounder as their top Center, none of the other top Centers look to have anymore heft than Koppen either, unless you want to take a late round chance with the 6'6" kid out of New Mexico.

    It was interesting watching the trend Dante is showing in his interior OL:
    - Connolly has been groomed to be the next Hochstein, he's the heftiest interior OL at 313.
    - Wendell is now Connolly's understudy, he was a 275 pounder coming out of Fresno State.
    - Orhnberger 290, from the Hobbs trade, they clearly want him.
    - Bussey hasn't worked at Center that I know of, but he is the next heftiest interior OL reserve at 306.

    The veterans BB/Dante bring in have some heft, but the guys they are drafting/signing (UDFA) and keeping are pretty much Koppen-style featherweights. :confused2:
  12. SidelineSid

    SidelineSid Rookie

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    Here's the thing that I've noticed. If Koppen is in trouble, it's usually Neal that helps him. Mankins usually lends help to Light if it's necessary. To compensate for this, we would sometimes shift the entire line to the right. This way Light would have help if he needed for the shift, and Koppen would would have help. Usually, Kaczur would be left on an island. That is why he struggled so often. he was usually the guy left in one on one match ups.

    If we had a good center that could push back defensive tackles, then our right guard could help out Kaczur. Make the center the strong point of the offense and we could devote more resources to the edges. Now Brady would be able to step into throws without fear of being hit from behind (like when he plays the Colts).
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    Excellent point,but in the zone blocking scheme, if Neal is helping Koppen then stunts are going to be a huge area of weakness because Neal's area is vacated.

    Another solution is a FB that can pick up the free pass rusher. Oh wait! BB got rid of all of them. My bad!
  14. Box_O_Rocks

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    There's a reason the TEs who were kept were the two biggest bodies with the better blocking resumes (Watson has been a pretty good blocker the past couple years and showed flashes before now).

    What are your thoughts on Pit's Dorian Dickerson as a potential FB/H-back option? Too bad Hynoski or however the kid spells it is only a sophomore.
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Why do you say that he's not a "Pats Style OG"?? I mean, other than the fact that he has 3 lip rings and likes to paint his face like a skeleton? Was it his suspension for "violating unspecified team rules"?
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2009
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Looks like the East/West Shrine game will be a good one to watch for O-line. Centers and Guards alike...
  17. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    Height, size, body-style, footwork - take your pick.

    Our OG's tend to be 6'4" or shorter, and 295-310. We like agile, mobile, shorter OG's - your guy is very far removed from that.

    He's the very definition of a road-grader, which we don't normally take. Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, Steelers - definitely. But not us.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2009
  18. SidelineSid

    SidelineSid Rookie

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    I'm going to take a guess. It seems that we go for shorter, 6'4, offensive guards and centers because Brady is only 6'4 and his favorite weapon , Welker, is only 5'9. It would be pretty hard for Brady to see Welker running all those short to intermediate routes if Brady has this big guy blocking out the sun.

    Personally, I would love a mean mauler on this team. The bigger the better.
  19. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's one possible reason, along with Kevin Faulk's size too, but they seem to prefer agile Guards, which are more likely to be smaller guys.
  20. State

    State Rookie

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    #70 Jersey

    I know one of the things that stands out for NFL scouts is looking at how players they are isolating play against top competition. I learned this from Todd McShay.

    Suh is probably the best NCAA defensive linemen in the last five or six years. And Carter handled him surprisingly well.

    I focused on the battle in the first half and was shocked. This whacked-out (I hate tattoos to begin with) mountain of a man was effectively shutting down a guy who is Richard Seymour good (in his prime).

    I'm just saying that counts for something. Brandon Carter is definitely on a lot of teams' radar screens. Why not ours?

    Apparently he trashed a locker room and was suspended indefinitely but came back in short order.

    I'd keep an eye out for him as Neal very well may be gone. With Vollmer and Neal all the sudden the left side looks really good.

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