This defense compared to years past

[Off The Grid]

I'm not knocking anyone for trying to decide which Year's Defense was the best ~ if you enjoy that sort of thing, more power to ya!! Different strokes, and all that.

My approach is to ask if this Defense is shaping up to be ~ not if it is, but if it is shaping up to be ~ on the same Top Shelf as our Defenses of 2001, 2003, and 2004, which I consider to've been unquestionably the best 3 Defenses we've fielded in the Bill Belichick Era. The 2002 Defense could be run on consistently, the Year before we acquired the Services of Mount Washington, and the Championship Defense of the early decade went into a slow decline after Teddy Ice Cold's Heart Attack after the 2004 Championship.

And I really don’t think you can quantify these things with Statistics.

Personally, I consider the 2004 Defense Hands Down the best of'm all: That was the 1st Year of the Polian & Manning Fan Boy Club Rule Changes, which immediately precipitated Manning's breaking Marino's TouchDown Record...and yet when we met in the PlayOffs, we held those caulksockers to 3 points.

3...freaking...points.

And that, Ladies & Laddies, was with a decimated Secondary.

The Colts were generally ~ yes, even around here, folks ~ expected to annihilate us.

Manning & Company had been unstoppable all Year long...until we stopped them cold.

3...freaking...points.

January...will be the true test of this Defense.

And by God, I like our Chances.

 

[Off The Grid]

This is just my Perspective, but when evaluating anything to do with FootBall ~ or any Sport, for that matter ~ looking at our Statistics over the course of a 16 week Campaign is informative, yes, but one should caution against placing too much emphasis on such Stats.

It seems to me that the PlayOffs are the best gauge of any Offense, any Defense, or any Team.

A true Craftsman of an Head Coach recognizes that the only Games that really matter are the ones played after New Year's Day...And he charts the course of his Team's Campaign accordingly ~ using September as a developmental stage while annually chuckling at the September screeching of the ignorant, knee-jerk Masses ~ and developing their Tactics incrementally with a mind to peaking when it counts.

God, I wish we had an Head Coach who saw The Big Picture that clearly.

Oh.

Wait.

We do.

 

[mayoclinic]

January...will be the true test of this Defense.

And by God, I like our Chances.

Absolutely. And nice to see you back, Brother Grid.

I don't much go for comparisons between years. But, to my eye:

1. This is the deepest defense BB has ever had.

2. This is the most versatile defense BB has ever had.

3. This is the best secondary BB has ever had.

I like our chances, too.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The thing about the run defense in the last 3 games is that the front 7 have only had to dominate for short stretches of the game. The offense has been putting up points in bunches, and thus, the opposition couldn't afford to have drives stall while trying to establish teh run and waiting for the defense to tire. Teams with defenses that can match-up with the Patriots (let's say the Seahawks - although that's anything but a sure thing) and keep the Pats out of the end zone, can spend a few drives pounding the rock against the Pats, potentially wearing them down and becoming more effective running the ball as the game wears on.

The Pats have been truly impressive in stopping the run in the nickel, something that they have struggled with through week 4 of this season for better part of the past several years. Where they would routinely give-up big plays (notably on inside zone runs) against their light box, they are dropping runners for short gains on most plays. That's as dominant as they need to be. They can't stop running plays that aren't called.

Wilfork and Branch/Jones are doing a remarkable job of holding their ground and letting the LBs, DEs, and Chung make plays, and those guys are making the plays. I think Siliga is coming back at just the right time to add the heft needed for the winter game plan, where points are harder to come by and running plays are more prevalent. That will give the front 4 a little extra rest, which they will need when offensive linemen are hitting them every other play, rather than once every 3 or 4 plays.

Fond memories are not always correct.

Do you recall that BB had to import Ted Washington for a rent-a-year, and then Trailor to control the Run in those SB years? Neither was a part of those "dominant" DLs of yesteryear.

 

[Ring 6]

Fond memories are not always correct.

Do you recall that BB had to import Ted Washington for a year, and then Trailor to control the Run in those SB years? Neither was a part of those "dominant" DLs of yesteryear.

Most people will speak as if Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Washington, Colvin, McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Phifer and Ted Johnson all were Patriots and in their exact prime from 2001-2004.

 

[goheels22002]

Oh boy, do I ever hope that you're right!

I think the potential is there for sure, particularly with the stingy passing defense.

In the meantime, I hear what you're saying about the stats being skewed a bit in '07 and agree on some level, but when you look at the (fairly) dominant pass defense, it makes you appreciate it even more. Add in that crazy "team" effort from seven different players credited with 3+ turnovers, the sacks (which were helped by the offense) and you get a nice balance for sure.

I'd probably have them ranked:

1. 2003
2. 2004
3. 2001
4. 2006
5. 2007

Personally, I wonder if we're not close to something between 2009 and 2007 at the moment--although I'd probably have them pegged more towards 2009 myself?

I'd rank the defenses of the Patriots:

1. 2003
2. 2004
3. 1985
4. 2014
5. 1996

The '85 defense was tremendous with LB Steve Nelson in middle with Don Blackmon and Andre Tippett, and DBs Ray Clayborn, Lippett, Roland James and Fred Marion.

'96 was the infancy of the 2003 defense. The defensive coaches in '96 were Bill Belichick, Romeo Crennel, Dante Scarnecchia, and Al Groh. Amazing.

2014 has a chance to move up the ladder, but they have to get to the Super Bowl. The 2014 defense is better than 1996 because it is presently deeper at DB and DL, assuming Chandler Jones returns. I give the '96 LB crew the edge over the 2014 (minus Mayo) with Todd Collins, Ted Johnson, Chris Slade at his very best, and rookie Tedy Bruschi.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fond memories are not always correct.

Do you recall that BB had to import Ted Washington for a rent-a-year, and then Trailor to control the Run in those SB years? Neither was a part of those "dominant" DLs of yesteryear.

People forget that in 2002 the run D was a joke. Because of that in 03, they drafted Ty Warren and picked up Mt Washington.

In 04 they drafted VW but as you say picked up Keith Traylor to bridge the gap.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Most people will speak as if Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Washington, Colvin, McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, Phifer and Ted Johnson all were Patriots and in their exact prime from 2001-2004.

Interesting observation. Maybe only Sey, Warren, Vrabes and Bru all were in their prime (age, production, etc.)

You could argue that Willie & Phiffer had their best years- but may not have been in their physical "prime" during that run.

Colvin could have been. Ted was nothing more than a 1st and 2nd down guy.

Washington was at his peak in BUF.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Absolutely. And nice to see you back, Brother Grid.

I don't much go for comparisons between years. But, to my eye:

1. This is the deepest defense BB has ever had.

2. This is the most versatile defense BB has ever had.

3. This is the best secondary BB has ever had.

I like our chances, too.

Those three points are key.. 2006 was wrecked on a non-deep loss of Colvin. 2007 was wrecked on injuries to a non-deep two guys on the OL.

The only place we are not deep as I would like is the OL.

 

[supafly]

The only place we are not deep as I would like is the OL.

I think we'll continue to move ahead at OL in the offseason, but boy is it nice to see 2 of 3 OL picks pan out very nicely with Stork and Fleming!

Those look like they could be excellent draft picks.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Those three points are key.. 2006 was wrecked on a non-deep loss of Colvin. 2007 was wrecked on injuries to a non-deep two guys on the OL.

The only place we are not deep as I would like is the OL.

Seau also snapped his arm in 1/2 in 2006. Colvin hurt his foot in 07. Both huge losses.

 

[Ring 6]

Interesting observation. Maybe only Sey, Warren, Vrabes and Bru all were in their prime (age, production, etc.)

You could argue that Willie & Phiffer had their best years- but may not have been in their physical "prime" during that run.

Colvin could have been. Ted was nothing more than a 1st and 2nd down guy.

Washington was at his peak in BUF.

But the point is they were not all here for all of those years, and the ones that were, weren't in their prime for all of those years.

 

[Ring 6]

I'd rank the defenses of the Patriots:

1. 2003
2. 2004
3. 1985
4. 2014
5. 1996

The '85 defense was tremendous with LB Steve Nelson in middle with Don Blackmon and Andre Tippett, and DBs Ray Clayborn, Lippett, Roland James and Fred Marion.

'96 was the infancy of the 2003 defense. The defensive coaches in '96 were Bill Belichick, Romeo Crennel, Dante Scarnecchia, and Al Groh. Amazing.

2014 has a chance to move up the ladder, but they have to get to the Super Bowl. The 2014 defense is better than 1996 because it is presently deeper at DB and DL, assuming Chandler Jones returns. I give the '96 LB crew the edge over the 2014 (minus Mayo) with Todd Collins, Ted Johnson, Chris Slade at his very best, and rookie Tedy Bruschi.

You left out the 01 team that held its opponents to 17 points or less in its last 9 consecutive games to go from 5-5 to SB chanmps, winning all 9. One of the greatest defensive achievements of all time.

 

[VrabelJr]

Interesting observation. Maybe only Sey, Warren, Vrabes and Bru all were in their prime (age, production, etc.)

You could argue that Willie & Phiffer had their best years- but may not have been in their physical "prime" during that run.

Colvin could have been. Ted was nothing more than a 1st and 2nd down guy.

Washington was at his peak in BUF.

Seymour was probably in his prime from 2005-2008. His 03 season was awesome and after that he became a guy that teams accounted for on every snap, which made way for opportunities from other like Wilfork, Warren and Green. I think Seymour spent 2004 trying to figure out how to be effective when you're getting double teamed and hit by TEs/RBs on seemingly every snap. It was a bummer he was fighting injury in 2007. His 2008 season was pretty damn good, too.

 

[VrabelJr]

I think we'll continue to move ahead at OL in the offseason, but boy is it nice to see 2 of 3 OL picks pan out very nicely with Stork and Fleming!

Those look like they could be excellent draft picks.

Stork seems to have panned out very nicely. Verdict is probably still out on Fleming but BB seems to like him. Cannon is also capable of playing either tackle position if we need him to. Our OL is decently deep.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You left out the 01 team that held its opponents to 17 points or less in its last 9 consecutive games to go from 5-5 to SB chanmps, winning all 9. One of the greatest defensive achievements of all time.

...and including playoffs allowed 14.1ppg in their last 12. Thats stingy in any definition.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Seymour was probably in his prime from 2005-2007. His 03 season was awesome and after that he became a guy that teams accounted for on every snap, which made way for opportunities from other like Wilfork, Warren and Green. It was a bummer he was fighting injury in 2007. His 2008 season was pretty damn good, too.

The issue is that I'm not sure he played like it.

 

[supafly]

Stork seems to have panned out very nicely. Verdict is probably still out on Fleming but BB seems to like him. Cannon is also capable of playing either tackle position if we need him to. Our OL is decently deep.

Using Fleming as an additional lineman vs. the Colts allowed us to run for 250 yds, and many plays were designed to run to his side. He was awesome--at least in that role.

I believe that Marcus Cannon may be in danger of hitting the road in the offseason when he hits FA, and I believe that Fleming may be the front runner to take his place, with the hopes of possibly even being able to take over the RT role permanently in a couple of years.

 

[supafly]

You left out the 01 team that held its opponents to 17 points or less in its last 9 consecutive games to go from 5-5 to SB chanmps, winning all 9. One of the greatest defensive achievements of all time.

Not to mention that the inclusion of the 1996 defense (who gave up 19.6 points per game, and were 28th in passing yards) over the much more dominant ones of 2006 (2nd in points allowed) and 2007 (4th in points allowed) seems to be a travesty in my opinion.

But hey--I respect his position.

 

[Ring 6]

Not to mention that the inclusion of the 1996 defense (who gave up 19.6 points per game, and were 28th in passing yards) over the much more dominant ones of 2006 (2nd in points allowed) and 2007 (4th in points allowed) seems to be a travesty in my opinion.

But hey--I respect his position.

1996 (almost) finished strong, well they came one game short.
But yeah, not in the same class.