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This administration is scary

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 24, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/24/MNGDONO11O1.DTL

    One of the Bush administration's most far-reaching assertions of government power was revealed quietly last week when Attorney General Alberto Gonzales testified that habeas corpus -- the right to go to federal court and challenge one's imprisonment -- is not protected by the Constitution.

    "The Constitution doesn't say every individual in the United States or every citizen is hereby granted or assured the right of habeas,'' Gonzales told Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing Jan. 17.

    Gonzales acknowledged that the Constitution declares "habeas corpus shall not be suspended unless ... in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.'' But he insisted that "there is no express grant of habeas in the Constitution.''

    Specter was incredulous, asking how the Constitution could bar the suspension of a right that didn't exist -- a right, he noted, that was first recognized in medieval England as a shield against the king's power to dispatch troublesome subjects to royal dungeons.
  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Hey, if you think this administration is scary, just wait to see what the Taliban, al qaeda, and Muslim sharia have in store for you. That's if the Chinese don't take over the world first, thanks to Bill Clinton giving them access to ultra-top secret technology needed for precision outer space military work, like targeting and intercepting communication satellites. Technology Clinton gave away for a few million in under the table campaign donations. Un-freaking believable. The guy sold out his country just so he could be elected. And people want to talk about "traitors" !!!




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  3. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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  4. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Blah blah blah, just generic try-to-scare-you crap like usual. So you're saying that as long as we're a little better than the Taliban and Al Qaeda, we can ignore the constitution. There's just no way to accept the Admin's interpertation. The AG is is claiming that by saying that habeas won't be denied, the constitution doesn't actually grant citizens habeas corpus.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    dear chicken little: there's medication and therapy for that level of sky-is-falling paranoia...

    yes, i'm sure China, with no semblance of a viable navy, is prepared and bold enough to take over the world all because of some alleged Clinton buyoff... lol...

    you have everything you need in that church basement, huh? a computer, the good book, and your slanted political conviction... do the CCD kids buy your pap when you get political?
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  6. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I read the article, and would love to see the complete exchange between Specter and Gonzales. Anyone know where that might be?

    I think the arguement, and this is why I want to see the complete exchange, is that every citizen is not granted the right, because there are instances where it can be taken away. If it is an unalienable right, then there would be no instance where it could be taken away. I think anyhow. It's letter of the law crap I think. I'd really love to see the entire exchange to see if that is what Gonzales is trying to say.
  7. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    OK, I'll make it simpler for you: as they go railing about Bush's admin as the second coming of Hitler or something, the Mongolian hordes are watching, stroking their chins, deciding just exactly WHEN the right time to strike would be.

    Oh, yeah, you got bad little Gonzalez for taking away your "habeas"; meanwhile the Islamists (or Iranians or NKoreans) just blew up Times Square, Capitol Hill, and the rest of DC. Either that or the Chinese just knocked out all our satellite communications. All. Not only your internet, but *all* commercial and military communications. ALL of them.

    But, hey, you got those "scary" Repubs !!! Pyrrhic victories, anyone??
  8. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    The video is here: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/19/gonzales-habeas/ and your reasoning is weak. Habeas isn't an "unalienable" right, it can be taken away, but the constitution is very clear on when and how it can be done. To me, that means it can't be taken away except as the constitution says... the AG is saying it doesn't exist in the first place.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  9. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I completely concede that the foreign threats to our country are more dangerous than the domestic threats at the moment, but does that mean that we should suspend the constitution? Yes or no, should we suspend constitutional rights because we're so concerned about the "Mongolian hordes"?
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dear Liberals And Bush Haters:
    Times are changing, America has to adapt to the actions of it's enemy's, we are now facing a ruthless savage stone age religion whose members believe they will go to Paradise if they disembowel your childrens guts and if you let your guard down for one instant that is exactky what they will do, they will blow you and your family to kingdom come and then scream "Praise Allah"

    What the hell is wrong with you people, don't you remember that poor guy falling from a hundred stories up on 9/11 flapping his arms "trying to fly".

    Has your HATRED for G Bush erased that from your little liberal head, or do you just try to make believe it didn't happen.
    God Help You.

    Many of you complain about America's "Religious Nuts", what do you think about the "Radical Muslim Head Hunter" and his GOD Allah.
    DEATH TO THE INFEDELS (you are one of the Infedels)
    :bricks:
  11. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    lol.... "Mongolian Hordes?" .... are they all green with big fangs?

    "yes, let's perpetuate the fear... even though i'm a loving, accepting Christian, i'm scared of foreigners... you should be too... they all want to kill us... so let's kill them first!!!!"
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  12. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Maybe you're right, times are changing and some of the freedoms our constituion has guaranteed need to be changed. But do you think it's OK to just ignore the constitution without amending it? Should we get rid of the Bill or Rights in this brave new world?
  13. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    Funny how the libbers arent all up in arms screaming their heads off at the thought of the SECOND amendment being under attack.
  14. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I wasn't trying to justify Gonzales's position. I was simply trying to put forth the question of wondering what Gonzales may have been trying to say. Remember, legal interpretations and explanations are extremely technical. It's one of the reasons why I hate lawyers. :D Technically speaking, he's right in the sense that it doesn't say (in written words) every citizen has the right, although we all clearly agree that it "expresses" that each does. Man I hate legalese. I took a business law course at Suffolk because I had wanted to go to law school. I had, and do still do, find law fascinating in some respects, but after taking that class, I was no longer as interested.
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Of course the constitution is important, but is that really what's going on here?? Are they really trying to solve a major problem, or are they just being political?? I say the latter. Please show the dangers of the issue under question, the so-called "habeas" issue.


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  16. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't 7 of 9 justices on the Supreme Court Republican appoitnees? I'm sure if the 2nd amendment creates individual gun rights, the NRA could sue and have gun control laws invalidated. Hmm... why don't they do that?
  17. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    what did 9-11 and Iraq have in common Harry? The hijackers were largely Saudi and Saudis were so afraid of Iraq and Hussein that they needed us to shield them in Gulf War 1.

    Do you ever stop to think how ignorant you sound sometimes? Oh, I know your signature line infers it, but do you have to believe it?

    Seems the ones who have this ridiculous US vs THEM mentality all have two things in common:

    1) None of them can really neither define who "They" are, and
    2) they are all religious fanatics (both loony Christians and nutty Muslims)
  18. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    HOO-boy !! Ain't THAT the truth.

    What I've always wanted to know is: where were all the women's righters when Bill was out molesting Paula, Mrs. Willy, and, of course, Monica. And some want to talk about "hypocrisy". Give us a break.


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  19. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Translation: "Democrats are hypocrites, so we can shred the parts of the constitutuion we don't like. We'll just keep bringing up Clinton as we do it."

    The Clinton thing was a good distraction for a while, but now there's a whole new administration that will answer for their crimes.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2007
  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    You still don't get it, do you. You think this spiral of playing "gotcha" is going to suddenly stop with YOUR point of view suddenly on top, vindicated beyond all reach??? You are deluded if you do.

    What happened to Clinton proves that there are forces at work here that neither you nor I can control. Better get used to it. It is what it is: BB may have made it famous, but he sure didn't invent it, he just realized it (to some extent, at least).


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  21. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I do agree with what you're saying here, but it's off-topic. Regardless of how crooked politicians are, and how much the cycle continues, I don't want any constitutional rights taken away without an amendment, and that includes habeas corpus. I get the feeling that you agree with me but still want to argue for argument's sake.
  22. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    I am arguing over the title of this thread: "scary". You'd think Gonzalez was Little Caesar, for crying out loud. It's all under control, out in the open. Some people want to play politics with every little issue that comes up. Please, give it a rest already.


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  23. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Scary doesn't go far enough in describing the policies of this bunch of whackos. Unamerican may be a more apt description.
  24. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Ok, so now can we get an answer on what you think about the AG's habeas corpus interpertation? Does the constitution grant the right by saying that it can't be denied?
  25. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Yeah but look who started the thread. What else would you expect? If QuiGon or similar started a thread about Janet Reno saying something, it would probably be written along the same lines. What's important is the content that follows. What's sad is that thread titles tend to shape whether or not the issue in question is argued or discussed. They make everything partisan. When issues become partisan, then they are no longer objective or intelligently discussed.
  26. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    You said a mouthful, bro. Keep on keepin' on. We're gettin' there. By and by.



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  27. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    The Constitution does *not* explicitly say anyone has the "right" of habeas. There is no affirmative in the Constitution about habeas, nothing to say any "has the right"; only the negative that it "cannot be denied". I thought someone else on this thread already covered this point.


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  28. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I honestly don't understand the difference. If the the executive branch doesn't allow someone to apply for a writ of habeas corupus, doesn't that mean they're denying it? It just seems like two ways to say the same exact thing to me.

    Here's another example of that kind of language being used (the 14th amendment): ...nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.. Doesn't that mean that people are granted equal protection of the laws?

    If you don't grant someone something, that's denying it, which is explicitly forbidden. Do you disagree?
  29. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    How often have the cops pulled you over for foaming at the mouth?? Oh, that's right, they don't have to, seeing as how you live in a padded cell already. Gotta talk with the state reps about allowing patients onto the internet. You're going to hurt yourself.



    :rofl:


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  30. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Tell you what, why don't you go on down to Washington and work on it. You're not going to get anything done on this list, that's for sure.


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