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Things that DO and DON'T get Americans upset...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    Interesting OP-ED about the global unrest, the problems in the US and how we generally are a bunch of panzies...

    Frances Fox Piven and Glenn Beck: A call for protest ignites a call to arms - latimes.com

    "Why are Americans such wusses? Threaten the Greeks with job losses and benefit cuts and they tie up Athens, but take away Americans' jobs, 401(k)s, even their homes, and they pretty much roll over. Tell British students that their tuition is about to go up and they take to the streets; American students just amp up their doses of Prozac."

    There are all kinds of explanations for how Americans lost their grass-roots political mojo: iPods have been invoked, along with computer games and anti-depressants. And of course much of the credit goes to the so-called populist right of the Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck persuasion, which argues that the real enemy of the down-and-out is not the boss or the bank but the "liberal elite"
  2. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    This whole Taco Bell thing might be the last straw.

    (I kid).
  3. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    Humor might be the best remedy right now.

    Are We Witnessing the Start of a Global Revolution?

    [The] major world powers, new and old, also face a novel reality: while the lethality of their military might is greater than ever, their capacity to impose control over the politically awakened masses of the world is at a historic low. To put it bluntly: in earlier times, it was easier to control one million people than to physically kill one million people; today, it is infinitely easier to kill one million people than to control one million people.[1]



    - Zbigniew Brzezinski

    Former U.S. National Security Advisor

    Co-Founder of the Trilateral Commission

    Member, Board of Trustees, Center for Strategic and International Studies
  4. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I have been thinking about that paradigm a lot when it comes to China. Much harder to overthrow a regime that has nuclear weapons. It is amazing that the Soviet regime ever fell.
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What we are seeing is the death of the modern socialist welfare state. Combination of the premise being an unsustainable pyramid scheme, and a rapidly aging population in industrialized countries due to abortion policies, the cost of raising a child in a high tax society and an assault on the family by the cultural elites.
  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    I believe its simple, to some extent. Revolution happens from within. The leadership of the United States didn't understand that following 9-11. We saw resistance in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

    Then you look at Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia and others, including Iran and Albania...the backlash against dictaorship is coming from the people. We still support dictators, because it serves our leadership in rols where our military is pouring resources into regime change and having little to no positive results. While we look all around the same area and see the revolution happening organically.

    Are we upset as americans that we've wasted countless billions and thousands of american lives?

    Nope.
  7. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    wow...this is pretty much the EXACT example of what our basic problem is.

    none of what you wrote about is an actual problem. Since the Great depression, taxes have never been lower, (except from 1988-1992) and they have been that way for over a decade now. Raising those children who are now in 5th grade in an era of the lowest tax rates in US history has in effect been toxic to our economy. we now have a 13 trillion dollar deficit.

    Our 4 trillion dollar execise in global forced democracy has seen it rise in nations whose dictatorship we support. We havent invaded a single one of the nations now under some form of revolution. Instead we build bombs, chasing ghosts.

    The unsustainable pyramid scheme, I assume you mean Social Security? Which has never missed a payment in over 80 years? FAIL.

    Abortion? WTF?





    You chosing the issues you have chosen to be upsetg about is the exact reason for the OP-ED and the exact reason why we as Americans roll over, and have been doing so since the 70s....we are pacified, and pointed to be angry with the wrong things.


    Not once do you mention the trillions stolen from you by wall street, bankers and bailouts. Not once do you mention defense spending (36-58% of our spending, depending on if you wish to include veterans benefits) Not once do you mention the failed policy of deregulation. Not once do you mention outsourcing labor, or our trade policies.....

    Nope.

    Its Taxes, Abortion, and Social Security...


    roll-over....sit....STAY.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  8. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I am sure not happy about it.

    The problem with favoring "stability" is that stability itself is an illusion.
  9. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Tax revenues as a percentage of GDP in the 1930's:

    Code:
    1930	4.2
    1931	3.7
    1932	2.8
    1933	3.5
    1934	4.8
    1935	5.2
    1936	5.0
    1937	6.1
    1938	7.6
    1939	7.1
    
    
    2000-present:

    Code:
    2000	20.6
    2001	19.5
    2002	17.6
    2003	16.2
    2004	16.1
    2005	17.3
    2006	18.2
    2007	18.5
    2008	17.5
    2009	14.8
    2010 estimate	14.8
    2011 estimate	16.8
    2012 estimate	18.1
    2013 estimate	18.6
    2014 estimate	19.0
    2015 estimate	18.9
    
    All-time high?

    1944: 20.9

    Source: White House

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/hist01z2.xls
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    What is the most eye-opening to me, is that we have been supporting dictaorships, while promoting democracy....

    nobody seems to think thats an F'd up policy doomed to fail?
  11. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I think in most cases it's a no-win situation. Support the dicator or promote the overthrow of the dicator or refuse to engage with that government.

    If we support the dictator, we look bad.

    If we fail to engage them, we look bad.

    If we meddle in the affairs of the country to overthrow the dictator, we look bad.
  12. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    oh.....percentage of GDP.....you silly machine.....we're drifting....

    here is the marginal income tax graph

    File:MarginalIncomeTax.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    taxes are frickin LOW right now
  13. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    wait...we also somehow fail if we are isolationalists too, don't forget that.
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    You forgot the "assault on the family" (which presumably also includes the mythical attack on marriage) :)
  15. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Tax revenues are not (when compared to the Depression). Rates mean nothing when trying to determine why we have a deficit.

    Revenues - Spending = Deficit or Surplus

    We have not had a true
    Code:
    
    
    surplus since 1960 (i.e. a year when the amount of debt went down):

    Code:
    [U]Year[/U]  [U]Gross federal debt[/U]
    	
    1960	290.5
    1961	292.6
    1962	302.9
    1963	310.3
    1964	316.1
    1965	322.3
    1966	328.5
    1967	340.4
    1968	368.7
    1969	365.8
    1970	380.9
    1971	408.2
    1972	435.9
    1973	466.3
    1974	483.9
    1975	541.9
    1976	629.0
    1976 TQ	643.6
    1977	706.4
    1978	776.6
    1979	829.5
    1980	909.0
    1981	994.8
    1982	1,137.3
    1983	1,371.7
    1984	1,564.6
    1985	1,817.4
    1986	2,120.5
    1987	2,346.0
    1988	2,601.1
    1989	2,867.8
    1990	3,206.3
    1991	3,598.2
    1992	4,001.8
    1993	4,351.0
    1994	4,643.3
    1995	4,920.6
    1996	5,181.5
    1997	5,369.2
    1998	5,478.2
    1999	5,605.5
    2000	5,628.7
    2001	5,769.9
    2002	6,198.4
    2003	6,760.0
    2004	7,354.7
    2005	7,905.3
    2006	8,451.4
    2007	8,950.7
    2008	9,986.1
    2009	11,875.9
    2010, estimate	13,786.6
    
    
    Source: 2011 U.S. Statistical Abstract.

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0468.xls
  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    again...talking about our tax rate....is kinda BS. Diverting the subject is part of the reasoning for ther thread. lets keep it topical.

    Tax rates are not even close to being our biggest problem as a nation.

    How those taxes are being spent? Now we are getting somewhere!


    If we ever see a revolution in the US, it should be about corporate america controlling a supposid representative government. For decades the middle class hads been looted, and we seem to not give a flip.

    What probably WILL happen, is that some dumb gun owning misinformed people will riot over healthcare, Social Security, or the tax rates....

    future generations (if the actually exist) will look upon this time in history as if it were akin to the salem witch trials, and ask WTF was going on? Those people were crazy!
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  17. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I am just saying that we don't have a problem with insufficient revenue. I think the Bush and Obama tax cuts temporarily went a little too low, but I don' think we can blame 50 years of deficits on inadequate taxation.

    The bigger problem, as you say, is where it is going.
  18. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    1 Answer.... Debt

    Debt keeps you having to pound the pavement for money else lose your modern day citizenship ( your credit score ) We also know that the majority of others, are not going to follow suit, so the end result of quiting the "race" and protesting, means yelling alot, and coming home to a repossessed home, and car.

    Debt = Slavery is epic.... becuase it's so true.

    Debt is nothing if we don't respect it... but Capital and investment will never come back as well.

    Our nation is too large for a group to make change, because there are too many people who are strugling in the rat race who still believe they are going to make it out. More likley they will make more money and find ways to spend it before they make it.

    The baby boomer generation is quite funny. They railed against the machine, and then let the "machine" roll right over them and turn them into the biggest set of inline worker bees...

    Kinda of funny as a young guy.
  19. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    The tea party people are trying and they are getting fried for it ... especially here in this forum. Any group that dissents gets fried. code Pink got fried by the right during Bush, tea party gets fried by the left ... going against the grain takes huge amounts of money due to the bad press it incurs in the blogosphere.
  20. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I think people driving slow in the passing lane gets Americans upset.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011

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