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Things I learned on Sunday....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 9, 2006.

  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    .....and I learned A LOT. And one of the things I learned is that is it is not easy to find you guys these days. ;)

    I have purposely NOT read any of the papers the last few days, nor have I listened to ESPN or the talk media. I wanted to maintain a singular perspective before writting this post.

    1. Peyton Manning was the better QB.... Sunday. It isn't like I would trade Tom for him one on one, but this was IMHO his best game against the Pats EVER. It showed to me, that like Tom, he works to improve his game EVERY Year. What I noticed this year was his ability, like Tom, to move in the pocket to buy time is much better than in the past. I also thought he threw better under preasure than he has done in previous years. He really stood in there Sunday night. He was also exceedingly accurate. I hope people noticed how he threw the ball where ONLY his receiver could catch it.

    He also has the advantage of working with his receivers long term, and being in an offensive system he has used his entire carreer, with the SAME OC.

    2. Marvin Harrison is a wonder. He was both a severe pain, and pleasure to watch. Not only was his TD catch something of amazement, the fact he managed to catch the ball AND get both feet inbounds was UNREAL. It is really depressing to see this guy do what he does, yet all week the only WRs we hear about is TO and "Ocho Chinqo". Harrison is propably the BEST WR of his generation, AND THE MOST UNDERRATTED. ESPN et al should be ashamed. :mad:

    3. I learned that the Pats are a better team than the Colts and WILL beat them badly when and if they play in the Playoffs. AND I don't care if its in the Dome or not. Payton ISN'T going to play better than he did on Sunday, and the Pats aren't going to play their worst game of the season. I mean, FIVE TO's. I think their were 4-5 penalties on third downs that GAVE the Colts first down. Guys, things like that are tantamount to turn overs. Inother words we there were 5 occassions where we GAVE the ball BACK to the Colts after holding them. There were way too many offensive penalties, to go along with the prerequisite 2 amazingly bad calls the refs made against the Pats (Troy's PF, and Vrabel's contact to the face).

    4. The Colts were the better team on Sunday. They made the bigger plays and fewer mistakes. It was as simple as that. Yet I feel strongly that, even if they meet in Indy, and the Pats bring even their B+ game, they will beat the Colts soundly.

    5. Lats week I praised Josh McDaniels. Today I come to BURY him. There were to striking things that stood out to me in that game, both are AMAZING. First was the virtual lack of ANY play action passes (PAP). You know, the play where the QB puts the ball into the back's belly, THEN takes it out and throws.

    Damned it, the Pats have 2 legitimate running threats, they were carving the Colts up in 7-12 yd clips, and the only time the Colts could stop the run was when their SS (Bob Sanders) was in OUR back field; YET the Pats never ran a SINGLE PAP where Brady ACTUALLY faked to the RB. The closest they came to it was when they ran those ultra complex screens that never seemed to work.

    Secondly, I actually had to admit that John Madden made a legitimat point when he questioned why the Pats were resorting to trickery when they had so much success just using their physical superiority. WELL I WAS WONDERING TOO. When Madden CORRECTLY states the obvious, (which is all he usually does :rolleyes:), you know there is a problem. :mad:

    6. Brady had a very bad game.... for him. I'm not negative about the 4 picks. 2 were deflections that weren't his fault and a third was a deflection, but from a badly overthrown pass. No, it was the 2 badly overthrown balls that were picked that hurt. AND I thought he was off target most of the night. Even some of his completions had the receiver off stride when they MADE the catch, limiting their YAC. Another example was when he had Watson up the seem and gunned a bullet that was deflected by the LB, instead of leading him to a TD. They were small things like that. BOTTOM LINE, just a bad game. I'm not concerned, but I do recognize it.. I'll be interested in see what Felger has to say, after I post this.

    7. I am constantly dumbfounded why the officiating is so INCONSISTANT this year. We see plays like the Brown and Vrabel penalties, and THEN we see the guy GET IT RIGHT on the Harrison TD catch.

    8. We really missed having Rodney Harrison on the field. It wasn't so much that he didn't play, but the fact that we had to move Chad Scott back to safety, and Hobbs left the slot receiver to go to CB, Harrison's loss essentially weakened THREE DB positions against the best passing attack in the game....EARLY.

    Now if Harrison is gone a significant time or forever, the Pats CAN recover and upgrade over time and be ready for the Playoffs. The worst time to have an injury is early in the game. It is a lot more difficult jumping into a game and making switches, than it is when you have a week to practice and plan for any losses.

    9. My opinion of Thomas' Blocking improved after this game, but at this point of his career, he is no Daniel Graham. I think both the running and passing game will greatly improve when he returns

    10. I know some people are getting impatient waiting for the emergence of Chad Jackson, and I'm one of them. However I offer this stat as a temporary band aid until he does. Deon Branch in his BEST season as a Patriot managed to record 5 TD passes caught. Thus far in a very limited capacity, Jackson has managed THREE.

    11. Among the reasons we WILL win ...the next one... were evident even in the loss. First the Colts are NEVER going to be able to run on this defense. That will make them one dimensional. I think they average UNDER 3 ypc. They aren't going to consistantly keep the Pats from constantly pressuring Manning, even when rushing only 4 men. Manning did a great job of throwing under pressure, and evading the sack, but you don't want to see your QB under that kind of pressure on a regular basis. ON THIS NIGHT he threw a few balls that were prayers that were answered. He won't always be that lucky.

    Even WITHOUG Harrison, You could see the improvement in the defense even from the first half to the second. Finally the Colts aren't going to improve their run defense, which makes me think they will be very vunerable in the playoffs and might not even get to us.

    Win or lose, playing them in the regular season offers other advantages of their own. It is like the advantage the Pats got playing the Rams during the regular season before meeting them in the Superbowl in 2001. Sometimes you actually have to see the team in action ON THE FIELD, IN REAL TIME to get a feel of what needs be done. To experience the speed, cutting ability, style of offense, or pace of the attack IN PERSON; is important. Often, you cannot get that feel merely from watching on film. Having that experience against the Rams in 2001 was a huge advantage come the Superbowl

    Finally IBWT, BB's record the second time around is nigh on to perfect. I was actually thinking PRIOR to the game that it might not be a bad thing to lose this game, not that it makes much sense to lose a game, but knowing how TOUGH it is to beat teams that SECOND time, and how often the team that loses the first one, wins the second; it wasn't TOO strange...I hope.
  2. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    PFKen, you are making me addicted to your What I Learned Sunday series!

    This post contains nothing i wish to quarrel with ...
    but many succinctly stated ... revelatory ... insights.

    The silver lining about losing the first time in a season
    is not only comforting as a teddy bear ...
    but it makes sense, and fits the facts.
  3. Patfandango

    Patfandango Rookie

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    Masterful post and spot on! Some here denigrate Manning but that was a terrific performance that no current QB could match and I'm not sure Manning could duplicate. He avoided pressure all day and the chain reaction that you mention hurt us in matchups with Harrison and Wayne. Manning to Harrison is a HOF pairing at their best. Still, in January, running and ball control will prevail. It was a positive that we tightened up in the second half and Chad Scott deserves kudos. The one area that disappointed for me was special teams coverage and Wilkins hurt us giving them great field position all night long. The lack of play action was mysterious but perhaps there was something they saw in the Colt D that preculded it (I'm sure the thought crossed their minds). Five TOs and dumb 3rd down penalties are thankfully rare for us and to come within a touchdown in the last 2 minutes of tying them despite this was confirmation of your key point. I too am optimistic of our chances when (or of) we meet again this year. Thanks again for a great read.
  4. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Manning absolutely placed the ball where only his receivers and only talented ones at that could reach it. Plus he made the throws while under extreme pass rush pressure. A masterful game.

    No doubt that Harrison is the BEST WR in the NFL.

    They played their A game on offense and defense and we played our D game on offense. they were the better team on the field that evening.
  5. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    some responses to a great thread!
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dwight Freeney. Play action is one tool in the tool kit. This did not appear to be a good time to slow down Tom as he gets set and throws.

    I've gone over tape for the first two offensive series, Freeney is giving Light fits, McDaniels is calling three step drops and quick developing routes to alleviate Freeney's pass rush without stationing a TE alongside Light. My understanding of the Tampa 2 defenses is they send the DE on a pass rush on every down. In the first two offensive series, McDaniels' play calling appears to be balanced and mixed up enough to get the job done. Execution, and I'm going to point the first finger at Tom Brady (what a poor decision on the end zone interception - he's forcing things like he did in the Denver playoff), has been the weak point in the offensive game so far in my efforts to winkle things out using the TV's viewpoint.

    Thanks for posting, always an interesting read.
  7. jimmyjames

    jimmyjames Rookie

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    Something I noticed in last year's loss and in this year's Colt's game as well was that Manning's best throws to Harrison, for something like 17 yards a clip
    came when the pocket was collapsing and it looked like the PAts were going to get to the QB. At those moments Manning would throw to the sideline for Harrsion to come back and get it, with no chance of it being intercepted.

    It tore us apart. How should they defend a QB WR tandem who are so in sync and have that kind of built in escape plan?
  8. brady et al fan

    brady et al fan Rookie

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    Lots of good points patfanken but I'll disagree with point 3. The Colts just faced the iron of the AFC in back to back weeks on the road and won both games. And I don't think it should be news to anyone that Peyton Manning is a great qb. I got tired of hearing the "we have Peyton's number" all week and he has now proven the contrary the last 2 times he's played us.

    And if you missed it, he looked even better against Denver the week before. He's just scarey good. And not only Harrison but Wayne also are studs. We had penalties not because we are dumb. These guys were the cause of most of them as we had to go single coverage to get pressure on Manning and had trouble staying with them. I agree about the 2 bogus calls, though the Brown one had no effect on the final outcome since we scored on that drive.

    As for Brady, I thought he was throwing the ball too hard and has been for the last several games. He needs to throw a more catchable short ball than he's been throwing lately. That had a lot to do with the deflected balls so he can't be let off the hook for those INTs either.

    On play calling, I agreed with Madden too and I don't do so too often. I've actually agreed with him 2 weeks in a row so either he's getting better or I'm getting dumber. But just when I wanted to see more Maroney I noticed 8 in the box and its hard to run on that. But we could have used some draws when both DEs had their ears pinned back doing their spin moves on every play.
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That just leads to folks squaling because Faulk was in the game and actually ran a couple draws if I remember right.
  10. FloridaPatsFan

    FloridaPatsFan Rookie

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    Excellent post Patfanken.

    I just cannot understand why we didn't keep running. The game was close and there was plenty of time left on the clock.

    Yes running is slow and boring sometimes, but I got the feeling everytime Maroney touched the ball that he was going to take one to the endzone.

    Play calling in 2nd half was horrible.....No excuses for Brady and McDaniels.
  11. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    The more that Booger plays, the more it will become obvious he is limited and fading. More and more proof that Gruden fleeced a desperate Polian.

    As for the dwarf. The more snaps he takes the more likely he will be injured.

    He is just too small to take the beating of playing NFL sized players. A great college player who just doesn't fit in the NFL, unfortunately. Now if he were faster he might be able to play CB, and avoid the hits, but alas he isn't. So he must try to fill a 220# player's shoes at SS. He might be able to do it for a few games, but his history shows the injuries coming every few games, and more and more frequently...

    As for his supposed weight, it is a polite Polian fiction. if he were anywhere near even 200# he would look like Kevin Faulk or Maurice Drew, both very muscular at 5-8 and 200-205#. He is 5-6 and doesn't look anything like those players. I suspect he might have trouble checking in at much more than 180#and mor elikely in the 170's.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2006
  12. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    What kills me about that game was that the better team lost in a stupid and embarassing manner.

    I would have rather played a good game and lost to a superior team than to just plain suck against a team that we could have beat any number of different ways. Coaching, execution, QB, we really played a miserable game and still could have beaten them at the end if we could just put together a decent drive against a fairly bad defense.

    In the end, I hope we can pick up our play against good teams. Since our schedule is so easy, we may only have one more test before the playoffs against a top team.
  13. PatsWickedPissah

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    The better team Sunday won and deserved to win by their superior execution on the field.
  14. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    Totally wrong. The better team choked and played like dog crap.

    That's why the game was so close instead of being a blow out. Eliminate one turnover out of the bunch and the game would likely have ended with a different outcome. Eliminate two out of the bunch and there would be no doubt.

    They played a great game and could not beat us without us beating ourselves. We played as bad as we could and almost sent it to overtime. This stuff about them being better at some arbitrary time like a particular moment on Sunday is hogwash. We could have beat them any number of ways if we played better.

    Only their kicker stunk.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2006
  15. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    Maybe it's just me...but I find it difficult to criticize the OC's playcalling and overall gameplan when it's the players job to execute each play properly.

    This was a classic shoot-ourselves-in-the-foot game by the players -- and we're blaming the coaches? :confused: :rolleyes:
  16. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But so few actually worship the coaches, how good the demi-gods of the gridiron wearing the same jerseys we wear to the games be at fault after a few measly turnovers and penalties? :p
  17. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    I agree with that. I think that we would have run the ball more if we had a lead. But I was covering all the bases in my reply.

    We still could have won that game simply by playing well. The Colts are a one trick pony and we are better balanced.

    Like I said, if we played well and lost to a truly superior team, I would feel better about the outcome. Losing a tiebreaker and very possibly a bi-week depending on what we and the Donkeys do for the rest of the year just is a hard pill to swallow when it was entirely self inflicted.

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