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Things I learned last Sunday......

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Oct 10, 2006.

  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    ..... I mostly lurk here, enjoying other's astute observations, but KFFL is down....again, and I have to get these thoughts off my chest, so I hope you don't mind this intrusion....again. :D

    1. After the Bengals we learned that the Pats weren't as bad as we thought. So, this week, conversely, we learned that we weren't as good as we thought. (who said there isn't any irony in football. ;) )

    2. I don't think anyone is going to have an easy time running on this defense this year. They are really very solid in that respect.

    3. Speaking of not being as good as we thought, maybe we ought to hold off a bit on ordering Lawrence Mulroney's HOF bust just yet. I thought he ran very tenatively this week, and thereby not as effective. He was particulary poor on KO's and was replaced near the end of the game. I'm not saying I'm not happy with his performance thus far, but he has a ways to go before he becomes a complete runner. When he has a clear hole he seems to hit it with great accelleration, and we get games like we saw in Cinci. However when he doesn't he tends to hesitate too much at the "soft spot" and ends up with a one yard gain, as opposed to the 3 yard gain that Dillon usually gets. JMHO.

    4. Speaking of Dillon, does anyone else think he got dinged during the game since he played VERY LITTLE in the second half. BTW - Dillon DID run very well averaging over 4 ypc during a game against a very tough run defense. He was having success, while Mulroney was floundering, yet Mulroney got the majority of the carries and we NEVER saw Dillon in the period of the game where "clock killin' Cory Dillon" is expected to shine. Injury is the only conclusion I can think of. Anyone hear anything.

    5. Tom Brady played his worse game of the year. Despite the constant Felger defense that its all the WRs fault, Tom missed open receivers early and often, usually low or underthrown. His velocity seems to be there and he constantly OVERthrows his WRs on the rare occassion they take a shot, so I don't think its an injury. Thus we can only conclude that Tom is having accuracy problems. Some of that can be attributed to the new WRs, but most has to fall at the feet of the man throwing the ball. JMHO.

    6. The good news is that we have a concrete track record of 5 years of success to back up our belief that this mediocre start for Brady is an abberation, rather than the norm. Plus we are 4-1 with a sub par QB, only bodes well as the season progresses - If we are not 12-4 at the minimum I will be VERY surprised.

    7. BTW - the Dolpins might be 1-4, but they are not a horrible football team. All the players on the roster that MOST thought were a superbowl contender are still there. Culpepper might be a bust so far, but no one should be surprised that their defense is a playoff calibre unit. So as disappointed as we were with the offense, a large part of that was due to how well the Dolphins played as opposed to how poorly our offense played. Just a thought.

    8. Speaking of "disappointing wins", if we are concerned about ugly wins, imagine how Colt fans are reacting to the near misses the Colts have had, including 2 games against the Jets and TITANS over the last 2 weeks. Like most things in life...."the grass is always greener in the other fellow's yard....(With regards to Big Brother Bob Emery, and if you are old enough to know who he is....YOU ARE OLD...and from Boston. :D )

    9. Speaking of the Colts, this has been a VERY generous schedule for the Pats thus far. It's nice to see what the Colts and to some extent Pittsburgh experience the past few years. Its even better to see the Steelers now have to go through because their division is now one of the toughest in the league, but before last year it was a joke with the Browns, the futile Bengals, and the one dimentional Ravens). Their quick decline and tough schedule make what the Pats faced and for the most part overcame over the last 3 seasons even more impressive.

    Its also kind of comforting to see the Colts finally enduring some of the injury problems the Pats faced and overcame over the last 3 years. I've always said the only 2 Colts I'd want on my team were Marvin Harrison and their strength and conditioning coach, because it seemed they have had so FEW injuries to key players recently, compared with the Pats.

    10. Saban made a comment after the game that really hit home to me. He was outraged that the Pats got the PI penalty in the endzone. I paraphrase, "You shouldn't reward a team for making a bad play". In other words Brady threw up a prayer and the officials, not the players, answered it. In some respect I have to agree. While I do think that Gabriel was interfered with to some degree, the penalty didn't fit the crime.

    That is why I think there should be some changes made to the interference rule which give the official some leeway in the penalty, much like the difference between an incidental face mask and a personal foul face mask. I think on a play like that, you should throw the flag and give the Pats a 5 yard first down or 15 yard walk off. They shouldn't get the ball on the one, IMHO. The punishment didn't fit the crime.

    I also think officials should be more wary of the uncatchable ball. The best example of that would be the phantom PI call in the Playoffs against Samuels in Denver. That was an eggregious call that literally turned a game around, on a play where the ball wasn't catchable and the WR's ability to catch the ball WASB'T interferred with by the incidental touching of the defensive player. The Jets were a victim of a play like that against the Colts.

    Altogether TOO OFTEN offensive teams are rewarded when they through up prayers hoping an official with save them. JMHO

    11. Speaking of fask mask penalies, BOTH of the ones the Pats got were fairly earned and I hope we have seen the last of them. The only against Green was particularly damaging and might have been fatal since we were only winning by 3 at that point.

    12. Speaking of Felger.....well I was a while ago ;)....One of his complaints is that the Pats cannot stretch the field virtically because of a lack of speed. I vehimately disagree. On the last 3 occassions I can remember that the Pats went deep, all 3 times the receiver HAD BEATEN the defense only to have the ball overthrown by the QB. Deon Branch was NEVER a deep threat. He gift was his quickness and accelleration, NOT his deep speed. Both Jackson and Gabriel have the speed to get virtical. It is up to the QB to get him the ball. IMHO that part of the game WILL COME as Brady gets more familiar with the WRs.

    I'm also very critical of Felger for giving the OL a D for the game. He pointed out 2 plays where Taylor was unblocked (clearly a mental error by someone), and O'Callahan getting beat on an outside rush where Brady was strip sacked. Well the Pats ran almost 30 pass plays and having a rookie get beat ONCE by a future HOFer isn't eggregious IMHO in fact its encouraging
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2006
  2. Jacky Roberts

    Jacky Roberts 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I think the Pats have a great DL, QB, and RB situation (not to mention coaching). I think they have significant flaws at WR and aren't fast enough at LB. I think realistic expectations are for a division title with a goal of a bye week in the playoffs. From what I've seen so far, this team isn't Super Bowl caliber right now.
     
  3. TomBradyWoot

    TomBradyWoot On the Game Day Roster

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    But the key is "right now" as you said. I think that as the season goes on we will come together on offense. The problem with me is the speed at linebacker. It seems teams can get to the outside on us easily.
     
  4. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Stop posting on KFFL and post here permanently, we need more guys with well thought out posts like this.
     
  5. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Oooohh a PFK post! Excellent.

    Thread subscribed so I can read it after work. :)
     
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Forget that place, join us full time :D

    The problem with the PI is the spot foul. I know we've said it a million times but it should be a 15 yearder except for blatent ones when it seems clear it'll be a completion and the WR is tackled. But the spot foul is horrible.

    Maroney - I haven't liked him on KO returns since he started, he's always been hesitant.
     
  7. sieglo

    sieglo In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's Maroney, not Mulroney.
     
  8. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting post.

    I disagree about 3. I think that Maroney ran well but there was very little there for him. The Dolphins were selling out to stop the run. That seems to have been BB's view (see yesterday's press conference).

    I agree about 5 and 6 and thank you for coming out and saying it. I guess that the only thing I can say is that perhaps Brady was having problems with the ball being coated with dust from the field (the Dolphins were complaining about it being hard to hold properly).

    I don't have the game on tape but I really think that Saban has disgraced himself by losing control over that PI without being able to see the tapes. To me it looked no worse than most -- the ball was catchable, the back made clear contact, it certainly was not incidental to a legitimate attempt to go for the ball. Yes, it is harsh, but it is part of the game. If it were only 15 yards, every time that a defender was beaten at the goal line he would just push the receiver.
     
  9. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good discussion points as usual ken - you should really stop by more often...
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady tried to hit Gabriel for about 40 yards downfield against Miami on the drive when we started around our own 13. Overthrew him by a few yards, though.
     
  11. gomezcat

    gomezcat It's SIR Moderator to you Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow, that's a great post. It has been mentioned before that Maroney runs better behind a FB for a H Back. He really wasn't getting any joy between the tackles. IIRC, the one longer than average run was around Left Tackle with Heath Evans blocking.

    You're right about Miami. I was very impressed by their D, in particular. They were pretty good in pass protection for most of the game, too.

    Brady had one period in the game, when he hit a rhythm. I think it was in the third quarter. He operated out of shotgun and hit everyone four or five times in a row. He looked more like his old self at that point. There's no doubt in my mind that he'll be back to top form soon.

    The PI was a difficult one. As the law is written, I don't think the refs had much choice but to give it. Will Allen made contact with Gabriel without looking around. I agree that it does seem an overly harsh penalty at times, though, and it gets to the point where ANY contact is penalised- well, not literally, but you know what I mean.
     
  12. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Too much good stuff here Ken, I don't want to fill up the whole page, so I'll respond to this part.

    The only real possibility for the hall of fame here is Dillon right now.

    Maroney is a great looking rookie, but he can't run inside like Dillon and guess what, nobody else can either, that I can see. Of course he's past his prime, but to expect Maroney to run inside like Dillon is expecting a lot.

    Laurence is doing fine and the best part, to me, is he realizes and respects that he is being tutored by one of the all time greats.

    Oh no!!! Say the grade schoolers, (I think they were on vacation last week), he's not that good, he's just another guy.

    "Dillon has posted two of the top nine single-game rushing performances in NFL history (287 yards and 246 yards). He is one of just two NFL players to run for more than 245 yards twice in his career (O.J. Simpson).

    Oh, maybe he was pretty good. Running that hard for a crap team. Almost 300 yards in a game.

    Some have said Dillon was rotating his shoulder. I think they want to see if Maroney can learn to run with more power up the middle. Either way, I'm thrilled with both of them and will be for years, I'm sure.

    Maroney's got a ways to go for the Hall, but I like his attitude as well as his aptitude.

    If Dillon makes it, his uniform is already there waiting for him.

    "http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_2000/hof_112000.asp

    Dillon, whose 278-yard rushing performance against Denver on Oct. 22 eclipsed Hall of Fame RB Walter Payton’s 23-year record of 275 yards rushing in a single game, has donated his uniform and cleats that he wore that day to the Hall of Fame. They are now prominently displayed in the Hall’s Pro Football Today exhibition room. It is the second time Dillon has broken a record held by a Hall of Fame running back. In 1997, Dillon broke Jim Brown’s rookie single-game rushing record (246 yds).

    "Those are some of the best running backs to ever play the game," proclaimed Dillon. "It’s funny my name is mentioned with them, but clearly I’m not at the caliber they were. I hope to be. … It’s something I want to work on. I want to be with them when my career is said and done."

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2006
  13. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The interference was, in my view, BLATANT, and whether or not Will Allen turned around is, in this case, irrelevant. He hit Gabriel before the ball arrived - PI. Period. I still don't get why ANYONE is arguing this.
     
  14. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree with everything you say for the most part. I think the two areas that need work on this team the most are not bending quite so much on defense, which some people attribute to lack of pass rush, but I attribute mainly to the secondary; and also the Brady to WR connection, which some people attribute mainly to the WRs, but I attribute to a combination of issues, including a sub-par start to the season by Tom Brady.

    I expect the passing woes to diminish as the year goes on, I am not so sure about the loose secondary since the injury bug has struck. But Rodney is back, thank god!

    I think the kicking game is coming along at perhaps a slower pace than we had hoped, but I think it is coming along.

    Overall, we mainly just need to play more consistently, which is what I said since week one.

    Luckily, we have a cake schedule, and plenty of time to be a really good team going into the playoffs.
     
  15. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't see how anyone can attribute the problems in the secondary only to that unit. The pass rush (lack of) has played an absolutely huge part of how they look out there.
     
  16. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    RayClay: Nice post on Dillon!
     
  17. bostonbuzz

    bostonbuzz Practice Squad Player

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    "3. Speaking of not being as good as we thought,...

    4. Speaking of Dillon,...

    5. Tom Brady played his worse game of the year..."

    A few thoughts...

    (3) BB stated he was pleased with Maroney's game vs the Dolphins. He liked his ability to make something out of nothing when nothing was there. Might not be what we like to see or hear but for Belichick to comment on it it means something.

    (4) Dillon ran strong but he does have some lingering health issues. Why not keep him out when it's not imperative he be in there knocking heads. Why not let the 'rook' gain the experience now and save Dillon more for upcoming games when the term 'grind it out' really means something. It's a long season and Dillon isn't getting any younger. Don't want to see him banged up again come crunch time.

    (5) It takes two to tango. Brady and his new receivers have yet to be on the same page for the most part. The quarterback's usually the one that looks like the spaz when a pass is off target regardless of fault.
     
  18. bostonbuzz

    bostonbuzz Practice Squad Player

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    Exactly! No argument necessary or worthy of discussion. The call on AS last year vs Denver...now THAT was worth arguing about.
     
  19. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    exactly - this only happens to almost every team, almost every week!
    it's not like this was some unheard of abberition and has never been seen before - this is daily life in the nfl - balls int ehh air - there's contact before it arrives - flag. period. cost you the game? too bad. better luck next game.

    saban acts like he's never seen that happen before! There is no reasonable excuse for why his defenders contract was ok. This guy looks like he's really starting to come unglued. I think between his argument with culpepper, and having the steak driven into the heart of his season, he's feeling the pressure.

    He looks so stupid the way he starts clapping every time something bad happens to his team as if to say 'that's alright boys, keep your spirit up'. I know he's trying to motivate, but it just looks dumbn to always clap at bad events! He also made the decision to sign Culpepper and not Brees. Brees has looked tremendous. what was his reasoning for going with a guy that had been terrible BEFORE he hurt his knee? Saban is feeling the heat, and with good reason. The prospect of going up against BB each year has got to be seeming pretty ugly about now to this guy!
     
  20. Underoath

    Underoath On the Game Day Roster

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    Maroney, not Mulroney.
     

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