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There's reasons to be concerned

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by 40yrpatsfan, Oct 9, 2006.

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  1. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm usually not very negative, and the last to say the sky is falling. But at this point in the season I'm seeing the half-empty, and it stems from the lack of reliable offense against good defenses.

    Everyone knows we're gonna win the AFC East, especially with the schedule we have. And 4-1 is a great place to be. But there's a lot of good teams in the AFC this year, and there will be no gimme's in the playoffs. We'll be facing a San Diego or a Baltimore or a Denver or an Indy or a Pittsburgh. Right now our offense would be shut down against any of those teams.

    I'd like to think our talent level is sufficient, and that we'll improve into the team we need to be. But yesterday did nothing to encourage that feeling, for the second time in 3 weeks. Nothing out of the running game. Nothing out of Gabriel, Jackson, Caldwell, or the TE's. Brady not impressive. It seems to be even more than just the absense of Branch and Givens.

    Luckily it's early. But for us to get the SB this year, our offense has to get a LOT better somehow.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2006
  2. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    Considering our history against the Fins, a 10-point win and Brady throwing ZERO picks is actually encouraging.

    Call me a mega-optimist but I feel a hell of a lot better about this team after 5 games this year than last. We were throwing all over the place in 2005 and we barely won games. Now we actually have some relief for Brady and the team is better off. We're not going to be the 2004 Pats but this team is resembling the 2003 edition and I don't mind a bit.
  3. Bella*chick

    Bella*chick Addicted to the light

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    Mega-optimist? No way, I'm with you. Last year we would win one, lose one, win one lose one until deep into the season. And our losses were horrible...the San Diego blowout was an early example. I feel MUCH better about the team this year than last.
  4. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

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    Show me a team that doesn't struggle offensively against good defenses.

    And I hope you were kidding when you referred to Indy as a good defense.
  5. mosi

    mosi Rookie

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    This team is getting better. Much like the 2003 team, it will win a lot of games. Indy is not the biggest worry. San Diego and Denver are. They have strong defenses and can match up well against us.

    The only thing I don't understand is why we don't play Cory more. He ran really well yesterday and is much better at pounding the ball against a stingy defense. If he is not hurt, I wonder if he is really being saved for the second half of the season?
  6. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 Rookie

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    People must have forgotten how we normally play against the Dolphins, this game had a GOOD outcome, not a bad one.
  7. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You're right about Indy's D, but any of the others I mentioned would give us fits.

    Yes, most teams struggle against good defenses, but Denver and Miami each moved the ball pretty well against the Pats D, and I think we have a great defense.

    There's something about the way our O has struggled against Denver and Miami that's very troubling. No rythm, no bread and butter they can depend on.
  8. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    Our D actually is improving against the Broncos. They only put up 17 on us and 7 was on a fluke play. The D is becoming more bend-don't break, lots of yards, few points. Last year it was lotsa yards, lotsa points.

    Our O never does well against Denver or Miami, they have the speed to match up against us.
  9. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    The one thing people miss is the fact you have to have faith in your game plan. In the Cincy game Maroney didn't start busting runs till the second half. And what appears to be the same play could have 12 didn't variations of runs and routes in it. They might be trying plays to see how the defense reacts and then change it up next time expecting that reaction. So if the reaction doesn't come that is expected do you throw your entire game plan away?

    I don't think McDaniels is creating a game plan on his own. I'm sure Belichick tells him he wants to attack the team this way. So if you think McDaniels is doing such an awful job with a 4-1 record you might as well say Belichick is doing a terrible job.
  10. Digger44

    Digger44 Rookie

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    Why did Cory need to play more yesterday? Why did we need more than 11 points? Why do we need to run up the score like Indi? Didn't we win? I thinks there is this obsession with blowouts over wins.
  11. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, I thought winning was winning but I guess some people think it's about the way you win (like there was some poll that needed influencing).

    They seem to ignore history.....
  12. Digger44

    Digger44 Rookie

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    Well there are polls. To some the power rankings are more important than gameplans and the Wins.
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    San Diego and Denver have to battle each other twice yet, and San Diego has yet to face a tough defense and win themselves. Oakland, Tennessee and a reeling Pittsburgh they handled with ease. Their lone loss was to Baltimore and there was talk of Marty losing his job all last week. But thankfully he didn't which makes them a longshot to even make the playoffs.

    Baltimore remains undefeated as does Denver, but that will change after tonight. Baltimore barely mustered the offense to beat the Browns and Chargers. Denver, who faces Baltimore tonight, lost their opener to the Rams and barely got by KC in a single digit scoring game.

    Denver, San Diego and Baltimore are all in tough divisions where they will have to battle just to make the playoffs. Indy is in tatters offensively and cannot run the ball on decent D or stop the run against anyone. Luckily they will probably win a weak division. Pittsburgh is floundering with the bionic man at the helm and we can only hope they even make the playoffs.

    Our toughest opponent remaining on the schedule is Chicago. They are a young team who still struggle on the road, have not faced tough opponents yet and may be peaking waaaaay early.

    We are a team who always finish strong due to exceptional coaching. This year we are featuring an offense in transition that got a late start on that transition and is still waiting for a rookie WR to earn consistent playing time and three new receivers to get comfortable in a sight adjusted offense. We have not nearly hit our stride and we are 4-1 at the bye with two of the toughest opponents on our schedule in the rear ciew mirror.

    We need some perspective as a fan base. Seriously. This is a team that has never won pretty, but the Lombardi isn't awarded for style points or Indy and those other teams you are so concerned about in week 5 would have multiple Lombardi's in their trophy cases. But they don't. We are 10-1 when we even get to the playoffs in the last 6 seasons and you'd never have guessed it in week 5 of any of those seasons either. We've become a knee jerk fan base who expects this team to go undefeated or crush the opposition on the road to Miami when that has never been the case. Spoiled, demanding and insufferable. A dynasty deserves better from it's fortunate fans.
  14. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Yeah. Miami an Denver moved at will; one scored 17 and the other 10...
  15. rabthepat

    rabthepat Rookie

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    I was very hard on our team after the Denver loss. But we bounced back nicely against Cinci. While our win against Miami wasn't a work of art we did win by 10. I think we are improving and heading in the right direction with several areas of improvement that need to be addressed. If you said before the season we would be 4-1 and Miami 1-4 going into the bye I would have been estatic.
  16. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Is it time yet to concede that we still need some help at

    wide receiver?
  17. ironwasp

    ironwasp Rookie

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    There's quite a bit to be concerned about. No doubt about it. All of it detailed here, and I won't repeat it.

    But it's week five. We're four and one, and I believe we're headed to the playsoff. That gives at least 12 weeks before we need to be ready to play those games. 12 weeks buys a lot of time for Gabriel, Jackson Caldwell etc to tune in to Brady and vice versa. 12 weeks for the secondaary to bed further in. Ellis Hobbs, for example, will have almost doubled his NFL experience. 12 weeks for the owner of Wendys and Garrett Mills to emerge as weapons. etc etc
  18. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    I wouldn't bother answering, but your post seems sincere and not panicky so I'll give you an honest answer.

    I disagree with you completely, not that our offense looks great now, but that we won't improve because I think we will.

    Let's compare to last year. We had three running backs, all injured. We were starting to lean on Patrick Pass more when he got hurt.

    He'll be back soon. He probably won't make the team.

    Corey Dillon is back. He is the active rushing leader in the NFL and is running tough. Maroney is new. The Pats are still figuring out how to use both these guys effectively. Good problem. Evans and Mills are good receivers. Again, they have to be worked in. Better than lacking talent, though.

    We have three good to excellent TEs. Too many weapons for Brady to bein sync with? I trust Tom.;)

    We lost two receivers that had 4 years to work with Brady. I'm sorry, were you looking for a can of 4 year rapport? Look at Brown yesterday. you can't bottle that, you need repitition and practice, (bye week?).

    Did we pick up some over the hill no talent hacks in our desperation to replace whasisname? Look with your own eyes, not what the panickers write. Gabriel and Jackson have looked pretty good to me. The only way they'll get better is by repitition. There's no shortcut for the difference between them and Troy Brown, sorry.

    I see three young strong fast tough, (Reche!) receivers.
    They could have brought in a name has been to satisfy the critics. I'm glad theydon't care about the critics, myself.

    Evaluate some of the teams that look great early. How many have overworked starter and no depth? How many look great because they hag on to players too long and don't replace them until injuries?

    Offense is about rhythm. We have lot's of new talent and it will take a while.

    Don't you think judging guys with a few practices under their belts against 4 year starters is unfair?
  19. mosi

    mosi Rookie

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    Well, we were only up by 3 and Cory's style of running is more suited to a team like Miami than is LM. That is why. Who the hell is talking about running up the score. Why the hell is everybody so defensive on these boards? No pun intended! :)
  20. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    I don't think the thread starter said anything about the O.C. We do have about 15 of those threads.

    I believe the topic is reasons to be concerned, that is lack of talent, on the team.

    Could we stay on topic on one decent thread today?
  21. Return of the Nizz

    Return of the Nizz Rookie

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    This team is third in the conference in scoring. would have been second if the Jets hadn't completely rolled over yesterday. I don't see a single 'great' team in the AFC. Everyone has their problems.
  22. 40yrpatsfan

    40yrpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, my point was that those 2 teams, Denver & Miami, moved the ball much better than we did against them. So you can't say that every team has difficulty against a good D, which was what someone had said.

    I expected a lot more yesterday in terms of offensive production and just looking comfortable out there. Even just a few good drives that ended in FG's or no points. But the lack of drives, together with no big plays, was very disappointing and a little alarming.

    Maybe we'll look back in a couple of months and say that Denver & Miami were the two best D's in the league, and that we were a work in progress. But right now it appears like it's going to take a long time to get this offense right.

    The Bills in 2 weeks will be a good test. If we have another game like these two against Denver and Miami, then we've got real problems I think.
  23. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    Wrong. We have three potential areas of concern.

    #1 kicking game: I don't see this as a long term problem, I think the protection needs to be solid so that the rookie can learn to kick consistently. This will improve, and I feel that Ghost has the personality to be 'clutch', once he learns the field and plays for a while.

    #2 secondary: Early injuries again, and a little too much 'bending' in my opinion. You can point to whatever you want, but we will need to have consistent secondary play as the season goes on. We will face better QBs than Harrington.

    #3 Brady: Like it or not, he has a great run game, plenty of weapons, and a average to decent O-Line, depending on how well coached up they are that week. He doesn't need more recievers, he needs to make his reads better, and stop underthrowing 50% of his passes. And if he can't get the long ball done, then they need to call more short passes until he can complete the long ball.

    I think Brady will come around, and the WRs and TEs will also get into the rythym better after this bi-week.

    The last thing we need is more new guys at WR to confuse the situation. Maybe another back-up, like Kevin Johnson, but they have enough starters.

    I offer no 'psycho' analysis or 'behind the scenes' opinions on why Brady is somewhat struggling, because I don't know. I also believe that he will turn it around soon enough. But you can go back and watch all his throws this year, and he has had guys open, and guys in position to make plays. But he has missed a bunch of those chances for whatever reaason. I'm not worried about him turning it around, I think the bi-week comes at a good time this year.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2006
  24. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    I don't think so. Yesterday against a defense that has given him fits, (like Denver so he's faced his two toughest teams in the last three weeks), Brady went to the guy he has rapport with for the big 3rd down conversions.

    Does that mean we need more 35 year old 8th round picks? I don't think so.

    There is no substitute for time and practice, both of which we have with the bye week. Gabriel has looked great at times and Jackson has looked good in limited duty, IMO.

    Reche looks like a fine number three and he's a gamer coming backafter that hit.

    Getting another guy now will mean 4 guys who need more work with Brady. Why would that be better?
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