There's no way Lonie Paxton makes this team

[zippo59]

People say that in must win game, down by 3 or less, with just enough time for one field goal attempt there is no one you would want kicking the field goal but Adam Vinatieri. Well, in the same situation there is no one I would want snapping the ball but Lonnie Paxton.

 

[pats1]

People say that in must win game, down by 3 or less, with just enough time for one field goal attempt there is no one you would want kicking the field goal but Adam Vinatieri. Well, in the same situation there is no one I would want snapping the ball but Lonnie Paxton.

Amen. That's certainly what it comes down to.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

This excerpt form the link I posted say it all:

"No one had a more fruitful career at long snapper than Trey Junkin. And no one had a career that illustrated the unfairness of the position more than Junkin.

After a stellar 19-year career that included six seasons with the Cardinals, Junkin retired. Two years later, the New York Giants signed him a week before their 2003 NFC wild-card game against San Francisco to replace an injured player. His bad snap with seconds remaining cost the Giants a chance at a game-winning field goal. He retired right after the game, and, as he suspected would happen, it's what many remember about him despite his long and successful career.

Consider what happened to the late Dan Turk. His 15-year NFL career ended after a 1999 Washington Redskins playoff game, when he one-hopped the ball to the holder, leading to a botched field-goal attempt and a 14-13 loss to Tampa Bay.

Turk died three months later of testicular cancer. His bad snap was mentioned in nearly every story written about his death."

 

[spacecrime]

Impressive research. You have convinced me.

(For a 'pure' long snapper, I have them not making any catches or starts at any position).

The Bills have Mike Schneck as a pure long snapper.

The Dolphins have John Denney as a long snapper/emergency DE.

The Patriots have Lonie Paxton as a pure long snapper.

The Jets have James Dearth as a long snapper/emergency TE who has started 1 game and has 3 career catches.

The Ravens have Matt Katula as a pure long snapper.

The Bengals have Brad St. Louis as a pure long snapper.

The Browns have Ryan Pontbriand as a pure long snapper.

The Steelers have Greg Warren as a pure long snapper.

The Texans have Bryan Pittman as a pure long snapper.

The Colts have Justin Snow as a pure long snapper.

The Jaguars have Joe Zelenka as a pure long snapper.

The Broncos have Mike Leach as a pure long snapper.

The Chiefs have Kendall Gammon as a pure long snapper.

The Raiders have Adam Treu as a long snapper and now-backup C who has started 44 games over his career.

The Chargers have David Binn as a pure long snapper.

The Cowboys have L.P. LaDouceur as a pure long snapper.

The Giants have Ryan Kuehl as a pure long snapper.

The Eagles have Mike Bartrum as a long snapper/emergency TE who has started 0 games but caught 11 balls over his career.

The Redskins have Ethan Albright as a pure long snapper.

The Bears have Patrick Mannelly as a pure long snapper.

The Lions have Don Muhlbach as a pure long snapper.

The Packers have Rob Davis as a long snapper and emergency DT.

The Vikings have Cullen Loeffler as a pure long snapper.

The Falcons have Derek Rackley as a long snapper and emergency DT who has 1 career start and 1 career catch.

The Panthers have Jason Kyle as a long snapper and emergency LB.

The Saints have Kevin Houser as a pure long snapper.

The Bucs have Dave Moore as a long snapper and TE who has 107 career starts and 206 career catches.

The Cardinals have Nathan Hodel as a pure long snapper.

The Rams have Chris Massey a long snapper and emergency FB with 1 career start and 1 career rush (for -1 yds.)

The 49ers have Brian Jennings as a pure long snapper.

The Seahawks have J.P. Darche as a pure long snapper.


So, the final numbers:

23 long snappers who have not recorded a sack, catch, start, or pass-defended.

7 long snappers who are fill-in emergency players with barely any stats.

2 long snappers who have significant starting time in the league.


This isn't college or high school football. Bill the starting TE doesn't play LS while Jack the starting C long snaps. These are specialized footbal players.

 

[Remix 6]

Condo is a LS too and he hasnt been around as long as Lonnie..I think hes fine..hes down well..1 roster spot for a guy whos been good at what he does deserves to stay.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Turk died three months later of testicular cancer. His bad snap was mentioned in nearly every story written about his death."

Man, what a kick in the balls.

 

[MDPATSFAN]

Kind of like the holder in "ACE VENTURA"

"LACES OUT DAN!!"

 

[DaBruinz]

Who says it has to be Mills? It could be Hochstein or anyone else who wants to give it a shot.

As I said, if no one else can win the "job" from Paxton in TC, then the fallback (not the optimal) plan is to accept that we have to keep Lonie. I'm not saying to get rid of him before someone else proves they can do it. But if a real player can do it at 90-95% of Paxton's perfection, then I hope it happens.

Yes, The Pats have so much confidence in Hochstein being able to long-snap that they went out and signed Sean McDermott and then Brian Kinchen in 2003 after Paxton went down. Are you actually thinking about what you are saying in this thread, Shmessy? Or are you just purposedly going around and around the facts just for the sake of having someone to talk to?

 

[DaBruinz]

I'll gladly take the "10,000 yards" for "one botched snap" anyday......and twice on Sunday. If you sit down and think about it, that's a lot of yards.

Unfortunately, that one botched snap just cost you a chance at the SB and cost you the season.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me that it wasn't Brian Kinchen's fault on the blocked kick in SB 38. Or that it wasn't Brian Kinchen's fault for the missed FG in SB 38.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not the game I know. No knowledgable fan will blame a season on one game, let alone one play.

And one play never won or lost a game. You take about sixty offensive and defensive snaps, and if you say only the last one counts you are missing the concept of the game.

Umm.. Tell that the the Giants long snapper who muffed one snap in 2003 and was cut after being with the team for like 8 years. Oh, and that muffed snap cost the Giants the game since they would have won if they had made the field goal.

You play for sixty minutes and every play matters. If you execute for the first 59 1/2 minutes, you don'thave to worry about the remaining 30 seconds. And if you don't execute properly for 59 1/2 minutes then you can hardly blame the loss on the remaining 30 seconds, now can you?

Yes, and if its the LAST play of the game and if you make it, you win, then HELLO, it cost you the game if you miss it. That's just simple logic.

A roster spot for a long snapper is nice, especially if you have a bunch of JAGs at the bottom of the roster. But the Patriots have come long way since 2001 when BB's opening day roster only had 51 players because he said that was all the NFL-quality players he had. Times have changed, and for the better.

Can you name ONE team in the last 25 years that hasn't carried a dedicated long snapper? JUST ONE team. That's all I am asking for.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

Can you name ONE team in the last 25 years that hasn't carried a dedicated long snapper? JUST ONE team. That's all I am asking for.

Damnit man, I was just wondering that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Amen, Crime. The Lonie Fan Club reminds me of that old joke about Leonid Brezhnev the day after he won an "election" by the people of the Soviet Union. He was upset and pacing the hallways of the Kremlin muttering and cursing when his advisor came up to him and asked "But Comrade leader, you got 99.9% of the vote, what more could you want?" Brezhnev answered "The names and addresses of the .1"

They can't see the forest for the trees.

Actually, its seems like you are the one who can't see the forest for the trees. Long snapping is almost an ART. Having MILLS on the team who could be a RESERVE long-snapper would be insurance against an injury to Paxton.

Cutting Paxton and relying on Mills and Thomas (who has never snapped in a game situation), is asking for trouble.

BTW, I point you back to the 2003 play-offs. Colts vs. the Pats. Can you honestly say that the muffed snap on the Hunter Smith punt did NOT swing momentum to the Pats and away from the Colts.

Oh, yeah, and a correction to you earlier, its not just AV that Paxton snapped to. It is MILLER as well.

For the record, Paxton made 136 long snaps last season from what I can find. Not one muffed long snap last year.

 

[spacecrime]

Yes, The Pats have so much confidence in Hochstein being able to long-snap that they went out and signed Sean McDermott and then Brian Kinchen in 2003 after Paxton went down. Are you actually thinking about what you are saying in this thread, Shmessy? Or are you just purposedly going around and around the facts just for the sake of having someone to talk to?

I don't think Hochstein was long snapping in 2003. I don't recall him doing it back then in pre-game warmups, anyway.

Perhaps having him long snap is a reaction to Lonnie's injury.

 

[DaBruinz]

Again - we KNOW that there's a need for a long snapper some 5 or 6 times a game. That need will never change. We DON'T KNOW if there will be a need for that 53rd player to step in to prevent what you just said. And if that need arises during some point in the season, having a mid-round rookie like Mills in there is not much more of a sure bet than having a street free agent in there.

Actually, the need 8.5 times a game. Correcting my earlier statement, Paxton long-snapped 136 times last year. (FGs+Punts+ PATS).

 

[DaBruinz]

There are fewer than you realize since many of these guys have 17 year careers, and are even called out of retirement at times.

A good read about longsnappers here:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/articles/0824boivin0824.html

I thought that Long Snappers couldn't cost a team the game?

Any comments, Shmessy?

 

[shmessy]

Folks, after 93 posts in this thread, it appears that we're going in circles. This is my last word on the subject since it has played itself out here. It comes down to a "chicken or the egg" argument.

The Pats have become famous for winning lots of games by 3 points. Perhaps a different method could help keep some of those games at safer margins for the Pats. Why not enjoy some easy victories for a change?
Do you keep someone who is considered a top-5 in the league specialist who participates in 4-8 plays a game, or do you replace him (IF, IF, IF the replacement can PROVE being adept at LS) with someone who can contribute and improve the performance of the team on 12-15 plays per game.

Although those arguing for the former have valid points, my choice is the latter.

And I will NEVER GIVE UP ON THE PATS IN THE 3RD QUARTER IF THEY ARE STRUGGLING AGAINST THE BILLS. No need to ID - You know who you are!

 

[Mark Morse]

How many botched snaps were there the season we won the SB with him on IR?

We nearly lost the Super Bowl with our third string long snapper Brian Kinchen ... he severly cut his hand, could hardly snap. BB admitted in Patriot Reign that it was a miracle he got the snap off.

Long Snapping is a lot more difficult than the average fan realizes. The same way you guage a punter on hang time or a WR on his 40 yard dash, a Long Snapper has to get his snap back to the punter in .7 - .75 of a second. A short snap in .3 - .4. Paxton is one of the best longsnappers in the league. Do you ever notice that he is there ... NO because he doesn't make mistakes. He is consistent from one snap to another.

My son longsnapped in high school and that was enough to get him on a college team. His college team uses two different snappers one for FG and XP and the other for punts. D1 schools recruit long snappers and they get scholarships too.

 

[spacecrime]

Umm.. Tell that the the Giants long snapper who muffed one snap in 2003 and was cut after being with the team for like 8 years. Oh, and that muffed snap cost the Giants the game since they would have won if they had made the field goal.

Yes, and if its the LAST play of the game and if you make it, you win, then HELLO, it cost you the game if you miss it. That's just simple logic.

It is neither simple nor logical to me. See, we look at football differently, you and I. To me, the game is more than the last play. Every play is important.

Me, I look at the giants blowing a three TD lead as being the reason they lost. That's what Ernie Acorsie said after the game, declining to blame the refs for blowing the call. If you recall, an OT playing TE (pass eligible) was dragged down before catching the ball. Pass interference. SHould have been first and goal on the one. Rekick and Junkins is a hero.

So actually by your logic, it wasn't the muffed snap, it was the bad call. That came after the muffed snap.

Earlier, you chastised schmessy for not getting his facts straight. Your Giants long snapper was not with the team for "like 8 years." He had been there for aobut 5 days. He had been out of football for two years. And he wasn't cut. He retired.

 

[shmessy]

We nearly lost the Super Bowl with our third string long snapper Brian Kinchen ... he severly cut his hand, could hardly snap. BB admitted in Patriot Reign that it was a miracle he got the snap off.

Long Snapping is a lot more difficult than the average fan realizes. The same way you guage a punter on hang time or a WR on his 40 yard dash, a Long Snapper has to get his snap back to the punter in .7 - .75 of a second. A short snap in .3 - .4. Paxton is one of the best longsnappers in the league. Do you ever notice that he is there ... NO because he doesn't make mistakes. He is consistent from one snap to another.

My son longsnapped in high school and that was enough to get him on a college team. His college team uses two different snappers one for FG and XP and the other for punts. D1 schools recruit long snappers and they get scholarships too.

Some of us would say we nearly lost that SB because Steve Smith and Muhsin Muhammad ran wild on our secondary with Geno and Rodney going out in the 2nd half. Once again, the old Brezhnev joke comes to mind. Don't lose the forest for the trees. Perhaps the 95% part of the game should take precedence over the 5% part. That being said I do want that 5% part to be excellent also, but not at the expense of the 95% part.

 

[tombonneau]

We nearly lost the Super Bowl with our third string long snapper Brian Kinchen ... he severly cut his hand, could hardly snap. BB admitted in Patriot Reign that it was a miracle he got the snap off.

So the backup to the backup longsnapper has a severe hand gash & doesn't f'up a snap in the Super Bowl?

I give up. Lonnie Paxton is indispensable.