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There's no way Lonie Paxton makes this team

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by see dan drive, May 3, 2006.

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  1. see dan drive

    see dan drive Rookie

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    Reading articles about Mills made me think we'll see a lot of players long snapping in pre-season games. How many guys do we now have that can long snap? Several years of Belioli scouting and drafting has yielded too much talent to waste a roster spot on a guy who plays one position and is in the game for 8 plays a game. It was once worth keeping Paxton because the 54th best player at the end of training camp wasn't as seriously challenging for a roster spot. This year final decisions are going to be something like:

    Keep one......Pass, Paxton, Bethel
  2. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    Preaching to the choir my friend. There was a big thread about this right after the draft, probably fallen back, but search for "Paxton" and you'll find it.

    Beware though: There are posters on this board who will warn you that The Immortal Lonnie Paxton is the only person born on this earth capable of properly longsnapping and that the Patriots will retain him for eternity.

    (Just don't tell them we won a SB with him on IR...)
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    No way Belichick drops Paxton who is a proven commodity in favor of a newbie...it simply will not happen. Long snapper is very high on Belichicks list...right behind TE's. :D
  4. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why make two positions worse?

    Just for the sake of having a more efficient roster, you'd purge one of the best, most reliable longer snappers in the league for a rookie? Not only would you be severely downgrading the long snapper position, but also taking some of the focus of a developing rookie away from learning the Patriots' system.


    I don't know why so many fans are so eager to indulge in some more rookie hype and continually throw out names of versatile, effective veterans that supposedly should be expurgated in favor of unproven potential.


    "buT d00d! cHAd jaaKsOn OWNzors! hEs dA neXXT jrery riiCEE!"


    I'd give an extra $200k to have one of the best at his position to maintain the quality of an overlooked unit on my team anyday.
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  5. see dan drive

    see dan drive Rookie

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    DAM IT!
    I thought it was a moment of brilliance to come up with such insight into the mind of Belioli. I read that thread it turns out....and only subconciously absorbed it....
  6. see dan drive

    see dan drive Rookie

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    I told you to choose from Pass, Paxton, and Behtel. Who's the rookie?

    Mills is one of many candidates to snap....
  7. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    All potential is unproven. WHen it is proven it changes from potential to accomplishment.

    And every time a rookie is added to the roster he takes the place of someone who was there last year, so every team every year picks potential over accomplishment in 5 to 10 cases.

    Anyway, Hochstein can long snap.

    The question is whether long snapper deserves a roster spot, because I've read many times that we are doomed without AV and no kicker can replace him, why bother to have a long snapper? No one can kick FGs except AV.
  8. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    How is Lonnie Paxton a VERSATILE veteran? He only FRIGGIN LONG SNAPS.

    That is the opposite of versatile. It's unitile, or monotile or whatever.

    If there is a player--anyone--not just newfangled rookie who can longsnap as well as actually add value to the team in some other capacity, how could people not be for this?

    Honestly, it baffles me.
  9. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Randel El can play wide receiver and quarterback! Let's just dump Brady, who can only play QB! He's wasting a roster spot! Get the Redskins on the phone! Anything to clear a roster spot for these deities ..er.. hyped rookies!
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  10. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    Ha. Brilliant.
  11. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was referring to Pass (RB, FB) and Bethel (WR, KR, PR).

    We must have been spoiled recently with Paxton and forgotten what a botched snap can do.
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  12. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Horrendous analogy. Brady is in for 60-90 snaps a game and does many things. Paxton is in for 4-8 snaps a game and does one thing (two, if you count the Snow Angel schtick).

    The fact remains, that with AV gone, the "timing and comfort level" deal with Paxton is not as important as it was before. AV was compulsive obsessive of the timing and comfort (which was why he was so successful). A new guy won't have that obsessiveness for Paxton.

    Thanks for everything Lonie! (not sarcastic, but heartfelt).
  13. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    How many botched snaps were there the season we won the SB with him on IR?
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, the Patriots are going to cut the best long snapper in the league to give the spot to a TE who has NEVER, not ONCE, made a long snap in a game. That's right. David Thomas has never actually long-snapped during a game.

    John Condo is another who can long snap, but he's a line backer.

    As for Mills. I understand he was the "back-up" long snapper, but how many long snaps did he actually make?
  15. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hell, all Josh Miller does is kick a few balls a few times a game. Let's get rid of him while we're at it. Worthless, I say! Nate Lawrie from Yale can punt and play TE - let's pick him up!

    In the 6 games McDermott and Kinchen snapped? None that I can remember. But everyone knows the nature of the game: all it takes is one mistake at the wrong time to screw a season and for a fanbase to damn a player for eternity. Paxton, as the quality player he is, has less of a chance for that play to occur.
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  16. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    No, maybe they'll have Hochstein or someone else snap. Maybe it will be Mills. If everyone else fails, they'll have to settle for the fallback plan and keep Lonie. But you've gotta be kidding if you think BB wouldn't love a real player to step up and win that job to save the spot.

    BTW, this "best long snapper in the NFL" stuff I keep seeing here - - Question: How many Pro Bowls has this "best at his position" player been to? After you give the answer, perhaps you should ask "why" the answer is what it is.
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  17. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=18977&pcid=41

    Don't know how you make that equation. (long snapped and was your typical H-Back = suddenly an amazing player.)

    And damn, he can return punts too! That waste-of-space Troy Brown needs to pack up his limited WR role and let Garrett Mills take over things. Hell, it's only for 3-5 snaps a game, anyways!
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  18. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Hmm.. Lets see, I can remember, specifically, 2 missed field goals in the SB that year. Can you honestly say that neither was the fault of the long-snapper Brian Kinchen?
  19. NE39

    NE39 Rookie

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    Belichick loves Paxton because he snaps quickly. I remember him talking about how they time the long snappers from how long it takes them to deliver the ball to the holder/punter from the start of the snap, and Belichick said Paxton is one of the quickest at getting the ball back there accurately.

    Also, teams are hesitant to have a regular player long-snap, because if there is an injury they are screwed. That is one reason why so many teams set aside a roster spot specifically for a long-snapper, and why that player usually doesn't play a big role on other units. Granted, Mills has yet to earn any role, but nonetheless the long-snap role is more important than you think.
  20. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So now how many Pro Bowls a player goes to determines how good he is?

    Peyton's been to 6 Pro Bowls since Brady was in the league. Brady's been to 4. Therefore, Peyton is the better player at his position...
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  21. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    You said he's "the best at his position". Do you then feel he's been rooked the past 5 years for not getting chosen?
  22. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    after what happened with the Giants, and then with NEP...I genuinely felt bad for that guy...(Kinchen)
  23. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One of the best. Remember, there's only one "need player" spot on the Pro Bowl roster. Furthermore, that spot has only been around for ONE YEAR. Schneck and Bartrum got it. It used to be just the "Special Teamer" spot, which usually went to an Izzo-type player (got it twice in the past 4 years or so).
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  24. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Shmessy -
    Its amazing how you bring out the PRO-BOWL as a sign of who the best player is. The Pro-Bowl is a friggin popularity contest. Its not a true sign of who the best are. And 90% of the fans on this board recognize that. Also, to my knowledge, they don't even have a spot for long snappers to be elected. They have ONE special teams spot. That's it. (Note: I just read Pats1's note that they have since added a long snapper spot to the ProBowl)

    So, while Paxton has never been to the Pro-Bowl, using the Pro-Bowl as your justification of whether or not a player is good is just laughable.

    Now, could you please tell me the position that Larry Izzo played last year other than Special teams? I don't remember seeing him out on the field other than that. Even Don Davis played an occasional snap.

    Now, as for how many snaps that Paxton is on the field for, you seem to have forgotten that Paxton also snaps on PUNTS. And, he is out there on every PAT. And, while I might be mistaken, I am pretty sure that Paxton is also out there on the kick coverage team.

    Belichick has shown that he IS willing to spend a position on guys who only have ONE purpose when that player is one of the best.
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  25. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Oh, now it's changed to "ONE of the best". Heaven forbid, Bartrum and Schneck got it this year. Someone actually thought somebody else could do what we all know only Lonie has the capacity to do as well.

    Impossible.
  26. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But why take the reduction in the quality of play at that position as well as the experience and comfort levels? What's that accomplishing?
  27. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Dabruinz wrote: "Shmessy -
    Its amazing how you bring out the PRO-BOWL as a sign of who the best player is. The Pro-Bowl is a friggin popularity contest. Its not a true sign of who the best are. And 90% of the fans on this board recognize that. Also, to my knowledge, they don't even have a spot for long snappers to be elected. They have ONE special teams spot. That's it."
    _________________________

    So Long Snapper doesn't get it's own spot (like a REAL position). That says alot. Must be some NFL conspiracy. Hmmm...... LS guys must be irreplaceable.......
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  28. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    First off, you are coinfusing people. I am the one who said that Paxton was the Best. Pats1 did not.


    Secondly, your sarcasm shows that you have admited defeat in the argument and you just can't admit it.
  29. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When did we say the position/player is irreplacable? It's the reduction in quality that matters. You're not going to get much return out of Mills in the offense, either. This is always the time of year when fans are so hyped up about these rookies and believe almost all 7 rounds worth are immediate starters who will perform at high levels. Many of these players MAY NEVER do that.
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  30. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Comfort level? What comfort level. AV is 1,000 miles away now. He's gone. The LS will be new to whomever the new kicker will be.

    I agree, Lonie has the experience, but if it turns out through TC and pre-season that someone else on the team can do a reasonably good job, then I believe the team could gain more than it loses by having an extra position player available.
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