There is no way Troy Brown makes this team

[jimmyjames]

That is how it always starts. Agree on one thing and then you find yourself agreeing on everything else. Welcome to Homerville.

This just made my day.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

It's idiotic to compare this to the Bledsoe situation. First of all - as I said before (please read the posts) - you are talking COMPLETELY from Bledsoe's perspective on a private conversation. Belichick has stood before the press on more than one occasion in the last month or so and SAID something to the clear effect of Troy Brown will be a part of this team.

Apples. Oranges.

I read your flipping post, I just disagreed that because Bledsoe said it, it can't be trusted. However, if BB says it, it MUST be true. I didn't comment on that because, to me, it is idiotic. It's not "apples and oranges" at all. BB is going to do what is best for the team EVEN if it means contradicting what he previously said or even promissed.

I could spend 100 posts on the short comings of Bledose, but he was a pretty stand-up guy and I'm not buying the arguement that he was lying about the incident.

Don't be suprised when Troy is not on the active roster because of some (probably made up or exagerated) injury and he retires - maybe after a short stint on the PUP list.

BB (and you) will have your little injury escape clause to hang your hat on, but the truth is that Brown is too past his prime to compete with the WRs currently on the roster.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Don't be suprised when Troy is not on the active roster because of some (probably made up or exagerated) injury and he retires - maybe after a short stint on the PUP list.

BB (and you) will have your little injury escape clause to hang your hat on, but the truth is that Brown is too past his prime to compete with the WRs currently on the roster.

I won't even comment on how standup Drew was but suffice it to say his version of what was actually said, and it was only said to him not to the public, has changed over time to better reflect what BB actually said to him.

This is a different matter entirely because it involves Bill publicly stating repeatedly that he sees Troy on this roster this season barring an unexpected development health wise. He has stated this repeatedly since the Monday following the AFCC. He didn't say anything like that about the liklihood of Troy returning to the roster when questioned during the 2005 or 2006 off seasons regarding his status. In fact I don't remember him saying that he saw a value in or roster spot available for an unsigned player EVER.

He has also explained in detail why Troy is not competing with Randy or Donte or any other WR for a spot - because he brings a very different and versatile skill set to the table that suits this system - one you apparently have little appreciation for. But then, that's why Bill is in charge and you aren't. The rest of us have made cogent arguments as to why Bill saying this makes sense, and all you've been able to muster is your own version (opinion) of the players value compared to other players about whom you have little or no basis of knowledge on which to compare - because most of them have never played a down here or in some cases anywhere effectively or with bankable consistency.

Troy may well not make this or any roster, but it won't be because BB was trying to let him down easy. Bill loves veteran talent he can trust. Fans fall in love with new names they imbue with all sorts of potential.

And BTW Troy's injury wasn't made up, that's plain insulting. He had knee surgery following the AFCC, and he's been rehabbing throughout the off season at Foxboro even though he is unsigned. He was not here in 2005 when he questioned whether or not this team still wanted him. He was here in 2006 and it was a good thing he was. He's here now which is his and the teams way of telling us that he wants to continue and he knows if he's able to they want him to. Even if that is not what you want to believe.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

1) Moss, Stallworth, and Welker are virtual locks to make the team.

2) Caldwell and Gaffney are better WRs than Troy Brown at this point in his career. That makes 5 WRs ahead of Brown.

3) Washington would likely be the 6th WR if the Patriots choose to even keep that many on the roster.

4) Even if Washington busts, you still have Chad Jackson. He is about as health as Brown (ie, not very). They will probably heal up at about the same time. Who are you going to keep? Troy Brown for what would definitely be his last season or Chad Jackson, a first round draft pick with lots of potential? The choice is obvious.

Sorry Troy. You deserve to be inducted in the Patriots Hall of Fame, but you don't deserve to make the roster.

Face it guys, Brown is done as a Patriots player.

Your arguement is solid, but there is one "X" factor...

If Asante Samuel continues to hold out, would that open up a spot in the secondary for Troy?

ADPF

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

And BTW Troy's injury wasn't made up, that's plain insulting.

I didn't know Bledsoe changed his account. If so, I will have to concede on that comparison. However, I still hold firm that BB will do what is best for the team EVEN if it conflicts with something he previously said.

As to the value of Troy... Moss, Stallworth, and Welker will not be cut unless they totally flop. I can't see that happening. Gaffney and Caldwell were the starters at the end of last year and are better WRs at this point then Brown and they have the familiarity that the new guys don't have yet. If the new guys catch on fast, perhaps this value will not be needed as much. Brown as a 3rd string QB? I see us carrying 3 this year anyway. Brown as a DB? I feel that he was a liablility and was only used because we were extremely desperate. Furthermore, he has stated that he doesn't want to play DB anymore. Brown as a ST contributer? Troy's return abilities have diminished over the years IMO. Also, CJ is also a return guy. I'm not sure the ST play will be enough to edge out someone else. Maybe. I didn't even talk about Washington who is a total wild card. He may turn out to be great, although I personally have my doubts.

All in all, I see it as an extreme up hill battle.

The last thing about a made-up or exaggerated injury.... I think you misunderstood me. No insult was intended. I'm not suggesting Troy hasn't been injured or that he is lying about an injury.

My point was that the team seems to sometimes manufacture injuries in order to stash players on PUP or IR. In this case, doing so to put Troy on IR could very well cause him to just retire instead. It could also be used to justify going with another player over him if that player (CJ maybe) is deemed to be healthier in their eyes.

 

[mgteich]

Brown will be part of the organization as long as he wants to be. That does NOT mean that he will be playing football.

Why wasn't Brown used more in the playoffs?

We didn't replace Brown with Welker because Brown was expected to contribute this year.

Brown is competing for what may be a non-existent 6th wide receiver spot with Washington, Jackson and Mills. There is no way that Brown is more valuable at wide receiver than Gaffney or Caldwell.

To think of Brown as a corner is equally ridiculous. There are 13 defensive backs on Armen's roster, posted today. And Armen's roster didn't include Samuel. We don't need more than 10 defensive backs.

If Brown makes the team, he will be inactive almost always, taking away a roster spot from a developmental prospect.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Brown will be part of the organization as long as he wants to be. That does NOT mean that he will be playing football.

Why wasn't Brown used more in the playoffs?

We didn't replace Brown with Welker because Brown was expected to contribute this year.

Brown is competing for what may be a non-existent 6th wide receiver spot with Washington, Jackson and Mills. There is no way that Brown is more valuable at wide receiver than Gaffney or Caldwell.

To think of Brown as a corner is equally ridiculous. There are 13 defensive backs on Armen's roster, posted today. And Armen's roster didn't include Samuel. We don't need more than 10 defensive backs.

If Brown makes the team, he will be inactive almost always, taking away a roster spot from a developmental prospect.

Well all I can say to you too is BB has forgotten more about football in a day than any of us roster predictor fans, and he says there is a role and a roster spot for Brown on this team and based on his versatility, and he has further said that role or roster spot isn't impacted by the presence of other WR's. He said it at the end of last season, he reiterated it when Stallworth and Welker were signed and again when Moss was signed - going so far as to say Moss had no bearing on Troy Brown because their roles were completely different. I think so many of you get so caught up counting roster spots and projecting potential you fail to grasp the value experience and versatility brings to teambuilding - which is what BB and Pioli engage in as opposed to mere roster packing talent acquisition.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I didn't know Bledsoe changed his account. If so, I will have to concede on that comparison. However, I still hold firm that BB will do what is best for the team EVEN if it conflicts with something he previously said.

As to the value of Troy... Moss, Stallworth, and Welker will not be cut unless they totally flop. I can't see that happening. Gaffney and Caldwell were the starters at the end of last year and are better WRs at this point then Brown and they have the familiarity that the new guys don't have yet. If the new guys catch on fast, perhaps this value will not be needed as much. Brown as a 3rd string QB? I see us carrying 3 this year anyway. Brown as a DB? I feel that he was a liablility and was only used because we were extremely desperate. Furthermore, he has stated that he doesn't want to play DB anymore. Brown as a ST contributer? Troy's return abilities have diminished over the years IMO. Also, CJ is also a return guy. I'm not sure the ST play will be enough to edge out someone else. Maybe. I didn't even talk about Washington who is a total wild card. He may turn out to be great, although I personally have my doubts.

All in all, I see it as an extreme up hill battle.

The last thing about a made-up or exaggerated injury.... I think you misunderstood me. No insult was intended. I'm not suggesting Troy hasn't been injured or that he is lying about an injury.

My point was that the team seems to sometimes manufacture injuries in order to stash players on PUP or IR. In this case, doing so to put Troy on IR could very well cause him to just retire instead. It could also be used to justify going with another player over him if that player (CJ maybe) is deemed to be healthier in their eyes.

Nobody is arguing with you that BB will do what is best for the team. He has indicated his belief that having Troy on the roster is best for the team. He may change his mind, but just because you don't see it isn't reason to predict he not only has but was BS-ing the player and the media and the fan base all along.

Teambuilding isn't about compiling the most talented group of WR's. Everyone on this roster has a job or jobs to do. Guys competing for the 4th, 5th or even 6th WR spots on a roster generally need to bring something more to the table that expands their usefulness when we aren't in 6WR sets... Troy knows all the routes, not just his own. He also has more experience in a read and react offense and with this QB. He's a heady player. He's also a player Bill trusts not to make careless or overeager mistakes in the field position game. BB predicted they would try to integrate CJ into the return game before the Chicago game last year - like much else with Chad, it never developed. Troy was exhausted at the end of 2004 and half jokingly said he hoped he wouldn't have to play both ways again. But he willingly did it again in 2005 and 2006 because somehow even with all the DB's on the roster they needed him to. We started 2006 with 2 QB's and likely will do the same in 2007 with Vinny possibly available as a mid season addition or Guttierez making the roster or promoted from the PS if he works out at all. Troy isn't a 3rd QB, he's an emergency QB.

You don't manufacture injuries to put a guy on IR unless you first sign him and then he agrees to be injured. If he did that it would make no sense for him to retire since doing so would kill his salary. But keep reaching, Lloyd.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

You don't manufacture injuries to put a guy on IR unless you first sign him and then he agrees to be injured. If he did that it would make no sense for him to retire since doing so would kill his salary. But keep reaching, Lloyd.

At some point, in order to make the team, he has to sign a contract.

Doing so, doesn't guarantee he won't be PUP'd or IR'd if he can't get healthy enough.

If he is smart, he will ask for a guaranteed 1 year salary so that if they do cut him or he decides to retire (perhaps to avoid IR or publically being cut), he still gets paid. I don't see that scenario as a reach at all.

Those assurances are part of coaching. If you want Troy to come back and be in the mix, you can't have him believing he has little chance to make the roster.

I'm done beating the dead horse. I know everyone doesn't agree and those who don't have also made some good points to support their case.

I've stated my case and time will tell which way it actually goes.

 

[Born_a_Patriot]

He said he had a place in the roster but never guaranteed he would make the team. He still needs to compete.

 

[TAPATSFAN]

Brown will be part of the organization as long as he wants to be. That does NOT mean that he will be playing football.

Why wasn't Brown used more in the playoffs?

We didn't replace Brown with Welker because Brown was expected to contribute this year.

Brown is competing for what may be a non-existent 6th wide receiver spot with Washington, Jackson and Mills. There is no way that Brown is more valuable at wide receiver than Gaffney or Caldwell.

To think of Brown as a corner is equally ridiculous. There are 13 defensive backs on Armen's roster, posted today. And Armen's roster didn't include Samuel. We don't need more than 10 defensive backs.

If Brown makes the team, he will be inactive almost always, taking away a roster spot from a developmental prospect.

If Brown makes the team, he takes two roster spots away because he will first beat out a guy like Caldwell or Washington or Gaffney all of whom have multi year potential compared to him and secondly, as he is unlikely to make the 53 man squad only to be inactive every week, he will bump someone from the 47 man active list.