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There are Traitors Among us....

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by sdaniels7114, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    Wait 'till Harry gets up and reads about this. He'll flip his lid and be pounding away in size 7 font all day. His keyboard may not survive.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Does that include for Scooter Libby???
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    O'Reilly is not a "Hysterical right wing talker" Darryl. He's barely right at all. If you look at his biography you'd see he was a democrat most of his life. He still supports gay marriage...and that's definately NOT right wing bro.

    On other issues, he's definately more conservative but he's nothing at all like Glenn Beck.
  4. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    PFiVA....we don't hold soldiers or gov't agents responsible for following orders. Nor should we. That's what being a soldier is all about..."Chain of command".
  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Anybody who does not prostrate themselves full monty in front of the left Dem agenda is considered "right-wing" by some people; shows where they are at.



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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    First, I feel compelled to remind everyone I'm not a fan of Fox news. That said, ANY American who feels compelled to photograph CIA agents and share those photos with the world is a traitor, no "if's, and's or but's"...plain & simple. Anyone who would do such a thing is a coward (see John Adams Project).

    If you'd like to comment, please refrain from discussing what "may or may not" have happened at Guantanamo Bay because it's irrelevant to these treasonous actions by Americans who feel it their duty to put these agents lives in jeopardy.

    God only knows what I'd do if I caught a person putting pictures of CIA agents on display on the internet.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is not a lot of info on this situation, except for O'Reilly who is what he is just another hysterical right wing talker... so it is difficult to try to figure out what his going on.. wonder if Glenn Beck knows about it????

    Lawyers Showed Photos of Covert CIA Officers to Guantanamo Bay Detainees


    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/us/21gitmo.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=Dratel&st=cse


    American Civil Liberties Union : John Adams Project - American Values

    The John Adams Project: Representation of Guantanamo ‘High Value’ Detainees

  8. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Very true.......... good note. We'll take the wait and see approach to see if the accusations are true. If they are, OH BOY........ I'm for any punishment we got, up to and including death.
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So far, from what I have read there are no pix on the internet... do you have any proof???
  10. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Ummmmm, NO. Hence the

    ;)
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Keep on believing that stuff...
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #11 Jersey

    Ummm, where did it say these photographs were "shared with the world?"

    From everything I've read, both here and elsewhere, photographs were possibly shown to detainees in an effort to identify people who may or may not have participated in their torture. (Which actually sounds pretty fair to me - and pretty fair to those agents who were NOT involved in any torture practices. After all, if you can't identify the individuals responsible than the collective becomes responsible.)

    No mention of how these picture may or may not have been shown. Were they part of a group of photos - agents mixed in with common folk - as in "do you recognize any of these people?" Were the prisoners told they were looking at pictures of agents?

    You're implying by your hyperbole and hysteria that some ACLU dude went into the jail, laid down a bunch of 8x10 glossies and announced "These are all CIA agents - they all tortured you. Let's go get 'em," right before he posted the same pictures on The Internet on a site called "Terrorist, Get Your CIA Agent Here."

    No matter what you think of ACLU lawyers (and don't forget the part that says the ACLU lawyers are working hand-in-hand with the US military lawyers defending the prisoners) they're all pretty smart. They are certainly aware that cases are not only not won on such blatantly illegal tactics - they're lost on them. You cannot lead a witness to identify someone - they've got to be able to pick them out by themselves.

    Kinda like Americans - we get to figure the truth out, too, without being swayed by gross misrepresentation of the facts like "shared with the world" when, in fact, all that may have been done was that a bunch of prisoners may have been allowed to view pictures of men who tortured them in order to identify them properly thus sparing a whole bunch of innocent agents a boatload of grief.
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know what the hell this thread is about but I'll tell you this, the God Damn ACLU Lawyers are nothing but a bunch of Pony Tailed Slop Sh!t Scumsucking Bastards, Castro/Chavez would have had them all shot and then fed to the Chickens they have walking around and sh!tting in their living rooms.

    GET BUSH
    DEPORT AUNT ZUCCHINI
    GEORGE OBAMA SUCKS BONG
    SAMSON OBAMA IS A CHILD MOLESTER
    BOONGA OBAMA LIVES IN A GRASS HUT AND EATS MONKEYS
    DAD OBAMA KNOCKED UP 134 DIFFERENT WOMEN

    PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA HAS 130 BROTHERS AND FOUR SISTERS
    JESUS H CHRIST
  14. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, foggy, I wouldn't want you feeling put-upon and sending weepy PMs because of the word "smart." If not that word, what exactly is the language you object to?

    Mebbe I need to learn from our right wing "teachers" hereabouts (see above.)

    It's clearly evident that you regard PMs to the board owner as a cheaply used tactic, rather than anything resulting from any real issue. I'll regard it as such... since you proactively invoke the notion that you'll boo-hoo your way to "victory" when your grasp of the conversation itself slips.

    To wit: you have posited that "smart" is not equal to "good." YOu have done so in a vacuum. Nobody said "smart" is equal to "good."

    The point was that the lawyers in question obtained the evidence in question for use in a legal proceedings. Being smart, rather than straw-men invented for internet complaining purposes, it is unlikely that their identities are showing up anywhere but in legal contexts, such as line-ups.

    You have established (not really, but we'll stipulate,) that your laundry list of historical villains are "smart."

    Thomas Jefferson was also smart, and so is Barack Obama. That does not make either of them Hitler.

    Neither does it establish that one is evil for obtaining a photo for use in a lineup to positively identify the accused.

    Nor, finally, does it make stupid people inherently good; In fact, I find ample evidence against this premise daily, as convenient a premise as it is in right-wing populist circles.


    PFnV
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Um, then we would have to find out who gave the orders, wouldn't we? That's what being at the top of the food chain is all about.

    So you find out who carried out the orders, if, indeed, they had been "ordered" to do so at all (unless by your statement you're acknowledging that torture took place only because the orders to torture came from high up) and then you investigate the ones who gave the orders and charge/exonorate them.

    Can't climb the tree without the branch, though. The first step is identifying the ones who got their hands dirty and follow the trail of blood to where ever or whom ever it leads to.

    And now I gotta go do some research on the personal responsibility of the individual soldier/agent because I'm pretty sure they've got some. You're expected to follow orders, sure, but if the orders violate the constitution or the Geneva Convention I think there might be some migating factors in a refusal.

    I'll let you know. I'm sure you're dying to find out.
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    As a matter of fact, sometimes we do.

    Think Nuremberg

    Think The Tokoyo Tribunal

    Think My Lai

    Think Lynndie England, Charles Graner and Abu Ghaid

    Think the following:

    Actions such as rape, murder, and torture are against military and civilian law. (Killing someone in war is not murder unless it meets other tests, such as a violation of the rules of engagement or the Geneva Convention.) Individual acts are treated as crimes by individuals. Most soldiers don't do these things just as most civilians never rape or murder their neighbors. When such crimes become a tactic of subjugation, which has been the classic use of rape and murder of civilians throughout history, they are war-crimes and those who set such policies are complicit in the crime if they can be brought to trial.

    democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6015684&mesg_id=6021364

    According to the Geneva Convention (which we signed and are supposed to abide by) U.S. soldiers are not only permitted to refuse to obey an illegal order (like being ordered to torture a prisoner) but are required to do so.

    I presume that applies to CIA agents as well.
  17. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #11 Jersey

    Well then STFU.
  18. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Now you've done it. You've got me feeling so sorry for you I can't say anything. Whatever I say will offend you, so please accept my heartfelt apologies for having an opinion that is different from yours. I know this makes me a "bad" person in your eyes, but there is nothing I can do about it!!! I beg your forgiveness for breathing air and walking on the earth.



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  19. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Wow, this momma has a beard!!!



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  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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