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Theory about Patriots defense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by maverick4, Nov 24, 2008.

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  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I think the Patriots defense is hurting mostly because we don't play bump and run anymore. The bump and run kills a lot of these slants and middle of the field routes that have been carving us up the past few years. It also slows down receiver's routes, which gives our front 7 time to get some sacks that are attributed to coverage or slowing down receivers. It also screws up the QB's timing and leads to more potential for interceptions when his receiver isn't where he is supposed to be.

    My theory is that after Polian changed the rules regarding CB's, we decided to go with smurf cornerbacks who had good agility. Unfortunately, their small size makes it difficult to play bump and run, which has made the entire defense suffer as a result. We now play off receivers way too much, giving receivers too much cushion for the short and medium stuff, especially inside. Another thing I noticed is that our D-line doesn't bat down balls anymore; I remember they used to bat down balls frequently from 01-04, did our D-line coach change?
     
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Another thing I noticed, to add here, is the past two years our corners seem to be left without safety help A LOT. Remember from 01-04 when a receiver would catch a deep middle or corner ball and then just get blasted from a Pats safety who was backing up a cornerback in coverage? It seems like Hobbs and O'Neal are left on islands way too much now, which is why they play off the line to be safe because they know there isn't safety help behind them. What the heck are the safeties doing differently compared to 4 years ago?
     
  3. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    Yes, but did you see O'neal trying to jam a WR on Sunday? The only jam was between his toes.
     
  4. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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  5. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Where is the safety help? I haven't seen a safety pound a receiver on a route like that in a long time. When you play bump and run isn't there supposed to be safety help behind you?
     
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1. Bill Polian rules.
    2. Mangini left and there has been no DB coach capable of preparing players the way he did.
    3. Pepper Johnson is the D-line coach and has been since Romeo left, I'd like to see stats on PBU by DL rather than rely on anecdotal reports.
    4. Defensive rebuilding took a backseat to the offensive rebuild.

    With the Polian emphasis on protecting WRs from anything more harmful than butterfly kisses BB has made it a point to go with quick twitch CBs who are generally smaller and less capable of playing a bump and run style outlawed by the Incontinent Committee. In 2003 and 2004 BB went with three veteran DBs and a novice in the secondary. Since then Wilson regressed as injuries took a toll, Rodney has been rebuilt once and is in the shop again, Asante developed nicely and commanded a higher price than he was worth (yes wankers, his price was too much for NE, Philly could have sure used some of that money to rebuild other areas of the team), Hobbs has played well in fits and starts as injuries dragged him down. The secondary has been in transition and has become younger and less experienced. Currently O'Neal is the old man back there and I believe the plan had been to use him as a stopgap until Wheatley or Wilhite or Richardson could adjust to NFL competition. Wheatley was just starting to show some of what BB wanted when he went down. Wilhite has been in training at Nickel and for whatever reason has hit a wall. Richardson has been dinged up, against the Steelers I noticed they were using him in the red zone and to replace Hobbs for a few reps, we'll see if he can do more in the final games. O'Neal had his worst game against the Steelers, a team that knows him like they played him twice a year for years - odd circumstance there.

    Green and Warren have been dinged up this season, Vrabel may be playing hurt, Bruschi is training his replacement(s), Adalius is MIA, Woods is now broken too, and the veteran SS BB hoped to use to spell Rodney didn't even make it out of preseason in one piece. Crap happens.

    BB drafted for defense in 08 - LB and CB. The Practice Squad moves are strongly LB flavored this season, a season that has shown us two rookie LBs and one developmental project who can play competitively in relief of our elder statesmen. Despite much whining from some, the younger DBs have been doing okay - if Rodney or Tank had survived there would have been some on-field guidance to help them along. The D is in transition and the O has only recently gotten to the point where they could carry a weakened D - assuming individual brain flatulence and butterfingers wasn't becoming a new on-field lifestyle.

    BB/SP are already re-tooling for the long term, if the O and STs can get their heads out of cranial-rectal insertion and cut out the penalties and butterfingers then they can finish this season strong. Even if this is their best, I'm encouraged - and there's always the draft and next year.
     
  7. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    were getting hit for the injuries we didnt have last season....w/ interest unfortunately it seems
     
  8. KillEM

    KillEM Banned

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    We are a year or two late in rebuilding the D.

    We should have guys that already know the playbook and have some experience in situational roles that are ready to step in and be major contributors.

    Instead we have Rookies and UDFA's
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
  9. DarrylS

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    Cannot play bump and run with really crappy DB's.. who are only marginally effective when they keep the play in front of them..
     
  10. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    safety help is the biggest concern, IMO. O'Neal would've been a lot less abused if a safety was there helping him.
     
  11. Rob0729

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    The Pats haven't played the bump and run since 2005. Ever since Pees took over. It actually helped Asante emerge as a CB since he is a great zone coverage CB but a poor man CB. His man skills are not great, hence why he has regressed in Philly. I don't think it is the problem for this year's problems.

    I firmly believe that pass defense all depends on the pass rush. It doesn't have to create a lot of sacks, but it has to force the opposing QB to have to throw quickly. If you give a QB all day to throw the ball, even Champ Bailey cannot cover a receiver forever (see the Broncos this year).
     
  12. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    or maybe its the 1 for 13 the offense had on 3rd down (the one being meaningless in the last minute of the game)......plus the 4 turnovers

    I didn't know one play could cost 33 points
     
  13. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    The three interior lineman have the power to collapse the pocket and prevent the QB from stepping up. They do their job well when all three are healthy.

    But it all depends on an OLB pressing the QB from the left or right (whichever side is rushing). Vrabel can no longer beat his man one-on-one, something he did well last year -- I think he's taking too many snaps for an older player. AD is out. Woods is playing his first full-time action and was out for much of the time last week as well.

    So it's Guyton, a tired Vrabel, Wright instead of Warren. That's the problem.

    This Sunday we'll find out if a guy who was lifting 70-pound boxes a few days ago can knock aside a pissed-off 330-pound left tackle. Two years ago, Colvin led the league in QB pressures, so maybe by the playoffs he'll be effective. But that might be too late.

    You have to hand it to the F.O., though. They make their mistakes, but it's not for lack of effort. They NEVER give up on the season.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
  14. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    Hey, it ultimately worked. Holmes was so baffled by the pathetic attempt at press coverage that he lost concentration and dropped that pass. Smart play by O'neal.
     
  15. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Regarding the lack of safety back-up and no one blasting receivers anymore on deep middle and out passes... why is James Sanders playing free safety? Meriweather is faster, better in coverage, loves to hit, and also smaller/quicker. Sanders should be a strong safety near the line.
     
  16. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    sometimes people make things so complicated.

    the defense sagged against Indy in 2006 title game after Seymour was lost.

    the defense wasnt as good last year after Colvin was lost.

    this year the defense doesnt have Samuel, Harrison,Colvin ( until now), Thomas, and Warren from the team that was looking so great in early 2007. Not too mention losing Tom Brady and Lawrence Maroney and Donte Stallworth from 2007.

    ya think that might have something to do with anything?
     
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Were you not following the Patriots and their defensive injuries in 2003 and 2004??
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
  18. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    The backups they had in 2003 and 2004 were a LOT better than the backups they have now. They could withstand the injuries then, they were deeper and younger.

    Its not schemes. its injuries and personnel.
     
  19. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    If you look back at week 6 against San Diego, the entire Patriots D was healthy and playing. And Rivers went 18-27 for 300+ yards and was never touched and O'Neal was lit up like a candle. With LT in the backfield and Gates roaming down the middle, the Patriots doubled the middle of the field and left the DBs 1 on 1 down the sidelines. Middle of the road WRs schooled our DBs. Proof that our secondary is bottom of the barrel. Our LBs were so preoccupied with Gates and LT that the pass rush was non existant. A classic talent vs talent matchup that the Pats D failed miserably. The Pats 3-4 achilles heal is covering pass catching TEs and the disruption they cause with the scheme.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
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