The Yin to all the Maroney Yang

[Oswlek]

I understand the questioning of Maroney, but it is largely misguided IMHO. Maroney leads the league in first down yardage. He is amongst the top 10 in ypc for RBs with 50+ rushes. He is 2nd according to footballoutsiders' success rate and 10th in their per-play measure (essentially tied with Morris and Addai for #8 in the league). Success rate is defined as:

In general, a play counts as a "hit" if it gains 40% of yards on first down, 60% of yards on second down, and 100% of yards on third down.

If the team is behind by more than a touchdown in the fourth quarter, the benchmarks switch to 50%/65%/100%.

If the team is ahead by any amount in the fourth quarter, the benchmarks switch to 30%/50%/100%.

The excellent ypc despite any long runs further illustrates just how consistent Laurence has been.

Obviously he isn't perfect. He needs to work on pass protection so he can be a threat out of the backfield. He needs to be able to counted on in short-yardage situations more. Maroney was one of the top backs in the league for yardage after contact despite missing a good amount of time. He clearly *can* be a bruising RB if he wanted to.

I personally think that the team has taken advantage of the historic passing game to allow Maroney to work himself back into shape and to improve parts of his game. They have been asking him to a) run with more body lean and b) not accept negative plays. Both of these are impacting his running because he has to think more than he used to. Once the new style become instinctive he will be able to leverage his natural ability more. This thinking is one of the main reasons he is accused of being "tentative" or "dancing".

I also think that Maroney is a victim of last year. He absolutely stutter-stepped too much and I think that some are viewing him with preconceived notions. He ran fabulously against Indy. Other than a few times when an unblocked blitzer had a clean shot at him, he made yardage every time (except one play - the 3rd and 1 stop) and it always took multiple tacklers to bring him down. His toughness just wasn't noticed because the 2nd and 3rd guys got there so quickly. And that is no fluke. Frankly, Maroney has been excellent since midway through the SD game.

Maroney is also hampered in the court of public opinion because he looked so damn explosive last year. His talent just oozed off of him and he really hasn't looked as natural this year. I firmly believe that this is entirely due to the factors I outline above.

Lastly, it is important to realize that Laurence is very young. The kid is just 22 years old - nearly two full years younger than Addai. It is my contention that NE views him as a long term weapon and are treating him accordingly. I will be very surprised if NE acquires any top-end RB talent in this offseason and I believe that Laurence will be one of the top RBs in the league by 2009 at the latest. I also would be willing to make a wager that Maroney signs his next contract with the New England Patriots.

Feel free to bookmark this thread for later use, but I don't expect you to be able to. :toast:

Edit: Obviously I should add "if he could stay healthy" to the bruising RB part above. That is frankly the biggest question with Laurence and it is the primary reason that NE is working on adapting his running style. As you can tell from my optimism about him, I fully expect Maroney to flourish in time and for his injury issues to subside.

Further Edit: With regard to 3rd and shot

I agree that NE needs to be able to have the rush be a threat on 3rd and short. Some of that is blocking, but much of that is Maroney.

I would also add that Maroney runs on something like 60-70 of the plays that he is on the field for. Obviously Faulk is a better receiver and blocker, so you would want him to be in on passing situations, but that predictibility is a big reason why ther seems to be a guy in the backfield right away whenever Maroney is running on third down.

The issue needs to be addressed, but it isn't all on Laurence, IMHO.

 

[BelichickFan]

The short yardage complaints are mysterious. Admittedly I like it when we throw from the 3-6 yard line because my perception is we don't run well down there. But Maroney is 8-37 on 2nd down with 0-2 yards to go. 3rd down and 0-2 to go ? He's only had two carries. He's only averaging 1.9 YPC inside the 10 but that's better than Morris was and just slightly behind what Dillon averaged in that range last year.

 

[borg]

He is a between the 20's runner who adds nothing on third downs, short yardage, or inside the 10. He is what he is.

 

[Oswlek]

He is a between the 20's runner who adds nothing on third downs, short yardage, or inside the 10. He is what he is.

And you are a poster who manipulates information to determine accuarate conclusions. You are what you are.

See how easy that is. Now why don't we sit down and actually discuss it rather than throw things out there?

 

[BelichickFan]

He is a between the 20's runner who adds nothing on third downs, short yardage, or inside the 10. He is what he is.

The eye test says differently to me. He's strong, he often dishes out the punishment, there's no reason he can't/won't be effective inside the 10 or the 5.

 

[borg]

And you are a poster who manipulates information to determine accuarate conclusions. You are what you are.

See how easy that is. Now why don't we sit down and actually discuss it rather than throw things out there?

In 2007
Carries on 3rd down=3...resulting 1st downs=0
Carries inside the 10=10...resulting in 1 1st down, 0 TDs
Longest run=19 yards
Receptions=2
TDs=0

Sorry if you don't like the facts...but tell me how I manipulated the truth.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Maroney seems to have changed (read improved) his running style this season. Accused of running too straight up last season, he seems to be running lower to the ground when in traffic. I like guys who work to improve. He has further improvements to make and perhaps we'll see the dividends as the long season progresses.

 

[Oswlek]

In 2007
Carries on 3rd down=3...resulting 1st downs=0
Carries inside the 10=10...resulting in 1 1st down, 0 TDs
Longest run=19 yards
Receptions=2
TDs=0

Sorry if you don't like the facts...but tell me how I manipulated the truth.

Read your quote again:

He is a between the 20's runner who adds nothing on third downs, short yardage, or inside the 10. He is what he is.

Faulk is clearly the choice on 3rd down because he is one of the best in the league at it. There is no shame in giving thos situations to him. With regard to 3rd and shorts, it is definitely debatable just how much the offensive predictibility impacts Maroney's performance.

Short yardage:

Maroney is 8-37 on 2nd down with 0-2 yards to go.

So he can run for a 4.6 clip on second and short, but he can't do it on 3rd down? Again, some of that is on Maroney, some of is on the offense itself.

Besides, I freely admit that Maroney needs to work on short-yardage and goal to go situations. It is clearly an area that needs to improve somehow because NE will eventually need to rely on the run to pick up a first down or a TD.

But you basically say that a kid who has proven to be excellent, is still adapting his running style at the request of the team and who is only 22 years old "is what he is". That is the height of improper conclusions. So we shouldn't expect him to improve at all?

 

[BelichickFan]

So he can run for a 4.6 clip on second and short, but he can't do it on 3rd down? Again, some of that is on Maroney, some of is on the offense itself.

"The offense" is definitely part of it.

Inside the opponents' 10, Maroney is averaging 1.9 YPC. Yuck, say the haters. Well Morris was averaging 1.5 YPC in that range before he got hurt. Last year Dillon averaged 2.1.

Maroney needs a little more time and a lot more significance to the stats before prejudging him on short yardage.

 

[ALP]

i also see big things for maroney to come up...and had rather not get another RB, i see maroney as being considered one of the best soon...

 

[Oswlek]

"The offense" is definitely part of it.

Inside the opponents' 10, Maroney is averaging 1.9 YPC. Yuck, say the haters. Well Morris was averaging 1.5 YPC in that range before he got hurt. Last year Dillon averaged 2.1.

Maroney needs a little more time and a lot more significance to the stats before prejudging him on short yardage.

In fairness to those guys, TDs attained will generally lower the ypc. The fact that his ypc is down there despite not having any 1 or 2 yard TDs isn't a good thing.

 

[Pedrorocks458]

In fairness to those guys, TDs attained will generally lower the ypc. The fact that his ypc is down there despite not having any 1 or 2 yard TDs isn't a good thing.

If he had a two yard TD his average would be exactly the same. If he had a 1 yard TD I can't imagine it would affect it too much.

 

[Oswlek]

If he had a two yard TD his average would be exactly the same. If he had a 1 yard TD I can't imagine it would affect it too much.

The point is that you can only run for one yard if you are on the one yeard line. When you have a guy like Dillon scoring 13 TDs - and noe of them are the long variety - you "inside the 10" numbers are going to be skewed a little lower.

Maroney's are that low despite not having any "only ran one yard because that was as far as the field went" type runs.

Hey, I'm that guy saying that Laurence is going to be one of the best backs in the league soon. But it really is undeniable that he needs to improve on those types of runs.

 

[PaulNEPats]

I think Maroney would be great in a split-load, 2 back situation, since that's the way the league is seemingly going these days. As has been stated before, the RB position is pretty demanding, so I can understand the injury problems thus far. I wouldn't mind seeing a McFadden/Maroney combo next season that's for sure (even though it probably won't happen )

 

[sieglo]

I want the Pats to let Brady throw for every damned TD this year.

Maroney will continue to get better. Two years from now we'll be laughing at this thread the same way we laugh at Brady vs. Bledsoe threads today.

 

[Oswlek]

I want the Pats to let Brady throw for every damned TD this year.

Maroney will continue to get better. Two years from now we'll be laughing at this thread the same way we laugh at Brady vs. Bledsoe threads today.

Why would anyone laugh at this thread if Maroney becomes great in two years?

Isn't that just what I said will happen? Do you mean that we will laugh at the *other* threads?

 

[patsox23]

I also think that Maroney is a victim of last year. He absolutely stutter-stepped too much and I think that some are viewing him with preconceived notions.

The best point in a terrific thread. I look forward to Maroney's continuing improvement putting the lie to the trolling chicken littles who seem to be taking over this site.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

In 2007
Carries on 3rd down=3...resulting 1st downs=0
Carries inside the 10=10...resulting in 1 1st down, 0 TDs
Longest run=19 yards
Receptions=2
TDs=0

Sorry if you don't like the facts...but tell me how I manipulated the truth.

Exactly. Does that sound ELITE to anyone? Please.

 

[bradmahn]

Exactly. Does that sound ELITE to anyone? Please.

You're arguing POINTS that nobody has made.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

You're arguing POINTS that nobody has made.

Nobody has made? I hear all these Maroney apologists claiming I am an ass for getting on the guy. Hey, excuse me if I am looking for a little bit more than the MEDIOCRITY our 1st Rd pick RB has given us.