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The Wall of Separation

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In NEM's thread about the Dems taking control of congress and what he thinks will happen there was an exchange between All Around Brown and I.

    He suggested the topic deserved it's own thread, so in the spirit of bi partisanship here it is.

    From the previous thread:

    I also ran across this article today about a documentary on ABC this Sept 10-11 called: The Road to 9-11. here is an excerpt from a review:

    link to the complete review:http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16621
     
  2. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Here is the video of Condoleeza Rice at the 911 commision explaining what Bush knew about al qeada's plans and what he did to prevent any tragedy that may occur in america due to the new info detailed in the DPB and past history of bin laden and al qaeda..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYbWaMqWy7s&mode=related&search=condoleez

    Also tonight on CNN is a documentary of bin laden and how he escaped capture after the 911 terrorist attack he planned.
     
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So the President had concerns about Terrorist good. The information in the Aug 6th memo did say there were concerns about Al Queda atacking inside the US.

    Unfortunatly, there was no specific threat identified that the President could act on.

    This speaks to the Wall of separation referenced in post 1 of this thread. If that had not existed perhaps the information the President had received woudl have been more specific and helped prevent the attacks. Thanks for the ,ink BC it does illustrate the issue I am addressing in this thread.

    BTW Ben Vineste is a real political hack isn't he, badgering Rice to give a caned political answer rather than providing complete answers to the commission.
     
  4. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    I thought we were discussing Gorelick and her allegedly constructing the wall of separation? :confused:

    What does a Hollywood fiction have to do with that? Should we start providing Syriana as evidence of the Bush master plan in the ME?

    Please come back to reality.
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is the connection. The film isn't a fiction it is based on the 9-11 commission report (unless you consider it fiction, whihc some conservatives might afree with.) The film address the wall of seperation and the role it played in the success of the 9-11 attack.

    I also felt it was interesting for this information to get out on the 5th anniversary of 9-11 during themidst of a congressional election where the 2 parties are presenting very different views on the nature of the threat presented by Islamofascist and how it should be addressed. The facts shown in the documentary draws into sharp focus the differences in the approach taken to dealing with threats to this country by the 2 parties.
     
  6. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    If its endorsed by conservatives as a version of the events, theres a good chance its fiction.
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So the actions of the previous administration had no role in preventing connecting the dots?

    The presence of Gorelick on the commission gvien her clear conflict of interest in this matter isn't a problem?

    The bit about Sandy Berger hanging the CIA guy out to dry when we could have had Bin Laden was news to me, and made more interesting given his subsequent arrect and guilty plea in stealing and destroying secret documents in connection with the 9-11 commission hearings. Perhaps the docs he was destroying were the ones showing how he let Bin Laden get away?
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    patsfan13 gets his information from MSM mini-series. LOL. C'mon patsfan, if you want to discuss things, you'll have to do better than that. Maybe the miniseries has been well researched or maybe it'sinterpretation of events is dramatic license. At any rate, while Bush's many predecessors certainly made mistakes, he was the only one who had opportunity to stop 9/11, and he failed. Just as Clinton failed to stop the Cole attack, Bush failed to stop the biggest attack on American soil in history and has answered that attack by donating 2500 American lives to the graveyard.
     
  9. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not at all what Im saying. The responsibility for 911 dates back at least three presidencies. Weve all been over this before. Not going there again.

    You have yet to demonstrate that IMO. Her colleagues elected to keep her on and that was a bipartisan panel...so I don't know why you are still swinging away and missing so badly on that pitch.

    OK, so now we're not discussing the original premise of yours.... that Gorelick was personally responsible for the creation of a wall of separation between agencies (absurd as it is)... but you are shifting to Berger and his alleged role in some conspiracy??

    Are you now just throwing a bunch of crap on the wall to see what sticks or what?
     
  10. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I call bullchit on this.
     
  11. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Bush's incoming govt was specifically warned and did not even assemble a counterterrorism task force until after 911...so yeah...he is largely responsible due to gross incompetance.

    Here in 1998 you had Berger making an announcement about the threat. So someone was sounding the alarms. Dick Clarkes hair was on fire in 2001 trying to get Bush's counterterror group to meet...but Dick Cheney had assumed responsibility for it and refused to meet until it was too late.

    Bush was on vacation for most of the 3 months prior to the attack...clearing brush...watching Barney chase armadillos...so he wasn't concerned for our safety. Just like Katrina when he was on vacation and not concerned about our safety.

    Bush is really really incompetant as a leader and sucks on national security.
     
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Democrat Bush Haters prefer not to speak of Sandy "Burglar" Berger.


    Clinton had 8 years.

    Bush had 8 months.

    Mikey please note:
    43,000 people were killed in America last year in traffic accidents, FORTY THREE THOUSAND.

    Liberal Bush Hating Sore Losing Democrats are now giving "Aid And Comfort" to the Muslim Terrorists that killed three thousand innocent people on 9/11.

    They give this support to the enemy in the form of "HATE" for their president and lack of support for their own free democratic country.

    Smelly Muslim Terrorist Pig Dog Bastards love this Gang of "New Democrats"
     
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    That's fugged up. Seriously fugged up. Do you know what "political fall-out" he was worried about? He didn't want to piss off the Saudi's.
     
  14. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    No...IIRC he was concerned that it would be seen as Wag The Dog since that what the right wing blowhards (Rush) were saying. Unlike Bush, Clinton didn't bend over backwards while the Saudis shoved gas hoses up his rear.
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Largely responsible? To say Bush deserves no blame would be ignorant, but to say the incoming president who'd been on the job for 9 months is "largely" responsible is asinine. Bush is such an easy target I feel compelled to give massive leeway to those who have decided to toss the entire blame pie at him, as opposed to the many pieces he may very well deserve, but "largely" responsible for 9/11? That's mind boggling.

    First, let's consider the fundamentalist threat, and the countless attacks against this country over the last 30-40 years. Even if you start with the Iran hostage crisis, we'd be spanning almost 30 years, 20 or 30 attacks, and 4presidential administrations, prior to Bush even being in office. Yet, the guy in office for 9 months is the one we're going to "largely" blame.

    That are the general facts. Specifically speaking, the mass with the most culpability is clearly the Klinton Administration. Mind you UBL attacked us in Klinton's first year on the job, yet, for 8 years, he did NOTHING. Even after UBL attacked us another 5 or 6 times, he did nothing. Instead, he decided to let the man roam free, even after being offered him alive (Sudan offered him up), and decided against killing him in Afghanistan. If anyone deserves to "largely" blamed, it's Slick Willy.
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    NEM you need to give it a break with the 9/11 Bush's fault stuff. Seriously. Everyday there are warnings in the presidential memo's. They are vague and offer no specifics. Had they had specifics they would have acted in the same manner as the recent London Terror plot. The fact of the matter is that our government had not taken terrorism seriously at any point prior to September 11th, 2001. That includes Jimmy Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., and Slick Willy. My beef, if you could blame one entity, which in fairness you truly can't, would be with Slick Willy Admin. Why? Cuz UBL had already atacked us 8 years prior. Same place too. Hello? In between those 8 years, he made other deadly attacks against america. Hi? Yet, the Klinton Admin still didn't feel it necessary to do anything about it. So now, as administrations are changing hands, the incoming admin is supposed to make terrorism #1 from day 1, when the outgoing intell services never had it as a priority in the first place.
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Clinton Sharing The Blame:
    The sore losing haters are blind to this, they make believe it never happened, THEY DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THIS, it was all Bush's fault he was reading a book about a Goat when it happened.

    Get Bush-Get Bush, how dare him win, (twice) :singing: :singing:
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Brown, I'm confused by your position here. A spade will forever be a spade in my eyes. I call things as I see them. Klinton was as corrupt, and as phony an individual that has ever taken office. He was a politician's politician. The fact of the matter with the Saudi's was that the CIA team that had made contact with UBL in Afghanistan had reported that an aircraft with Saudi Royal insignia's on it was present near the village. Apparently a Saudi Royal of some sort had been visiting with MR Bin Laden (saw this on the History Channel program about UBL). Upon learing of the Royals presence, Klinton would not OK a Tomahawk strike as he feared the Royals death would piss off the King.

    Now, Slick Willy sure wasn't as cozy or concerned with Saudi Royals like the Bush tangent (Senior especially), but then again, Slick Willy was too consumed with the Chinese. Furthermore, a leader cannot decide policy, or makes critical decisions in conjunction with media sentiment. Polls and news shows should NEVER factor when it comes to policy. The people, and the country's best interests is all that should matter. That's why Slick Willy was such a great politician, and such a miserable president. On the surface, the economy was great, everyone got rich, and life was rosie. In actuality, corporations were fudging books and going bancrupt, the stock market was collapsing, the Chinese were buying secrets, Korea was going nuclear, and terrorists were planning our demise.
     
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :D
    Actually Patters the information is from 2 sources. the memo from Gorelick that you didn't apparently look at, it was from Gorelick to Louie Freeh and Mary Jo White. Check it out.

    The information from the documentary is from the 9-11 commission report. IMO presenting this information in the form on a miniseries will get it a lot of attention it wouldn't otherwise get. What do you think?

    Candidly I am shocked that ABC would produce this film.
     
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah and old Sandy had a CIA operative who Had OBL trapped and would give him the authorization to capture /Kill him, great judgement Sandy!

    I would love to know what documents he was convicted of stealing and destroying.;)
     

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