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The Tuck Rule

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by signbabybrady, Dec 8, 2008.

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  1. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    I have found thru the years that knowledge is the best way to combat an idiot. So to make sure everyone is brushed up on the rule here it is.


    Undoubtedly with the Pats playing the Raiders this week some of us will be having the always fun conversation about whether the Tuck play is legit.

    I memorized this back in 02 after it happened and being able to cite the exact rule has made my arguments seem stronger thru the years.

    Earlier this season in fact I had this argument and knowing the rule did nothing because the person wanted examples of other instances. The argument began on a friday. Friday night I looked up some instances with Patsfans help and Saterday I was able to give him an article where it occurred a year later in a skins game. I was arguing with one person in particular but coming to this persons aide was a Cowboys fan and he was giving me crap until on that same weekend Romo was apparently sacked in his own endzone only to have the safety overturned by none-other than the Tuck Rule. Needless to say the Cowboys fan is now on my side of the argument.
     
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  2. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    And, as always, when this comes up, I point out another fact: if you go back and watch the tape, you'll see that while the rule was correctly applied, it never should have been necessary. Woodson should have been flagged for unnecessary roughness for hitting Brady in the head.
     
  3. ScottieC

    ScottieC In the Starting Line-Up

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    My usual response is, "Scoreboard!" ;)
     
  4. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    Whenver a Raider fan whines about it I always ask them why the Raiders laid down and died like dogs afterwards. Hardly a Championship caliber team thing to do.
     
  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is the best rule to cite to any Raiders' fan who is still crying about the tuck rule:

    It was nearly seven years ago! Get over it!

    Any other response is not worth the bandwidth used to deliver it.
     
  6. JAYHAWKS34

    JAYHAWKS34 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Don’t have this issue since Raider fans are scarce in this area
     
  7. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's happened multiple times, but because this was a playoff game, it's the only one remembers. It doesn't help that so many media members ignore the fact that it was called before and since, and was a rule that was on the books, and instead say it was 'a terrible call by the ref'. It happened earlier that same season in a Jets game with Vinny at QB, that helped the Jets win. Also looks like it was called a couple times two years ago.
    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...0174-alright-no-more-tuck-rule-arguments.html

    In addition, if it was such a horrible rule/call, then why did the competition committee decide to keep the rule on? Considering whom some of those members are, it would have been a perfect opportunity to stick it to their nemesis, the Pats, by making that victory appear to be tainted.

    In this thread there is a link to where Head of Officiating Mike Pereira comments that it is called 12 to 15 times a season.
    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/165113-tuck-rule-question.html
     
  8. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

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    Like Vrabel should have been flagged for clubbing Warner in the head in SB XXXVI?
     
  9. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Game 2 of the 2001 season. Jets vs Pats. Close game. Vinnie goes back to pass, Pats sack him, he 'fumbles' Pats recover. Huge. Then the refs gave the ball BACK to the Jets. Us fans in the stands had no idea what had happened or why but that was the Tuck Rule and it helped cost the Pats that game. Well that call and Bledsoe inexplicably yet characteristically tossing the ball directly to an astounded James Farrior, Jets LB. Pats were 0-2 with Drew knocked outa the game late in the 4th QTR.
     
  10. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

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    Ton of Raider fans where I live. I average about 3 Raider games a year. Last year, I was at the Raiders game while the Pats were playing the Colts. The Raiders were losing so me and the other Pats fan ran into the in-stadium bar to watch the Pats/Colts game.

    It was great. I was talking all this trash to the Raider fans in the stadium about the Snow Bowl.

    "Why did Gruden run out the clock and leave it to overtime to decide the game?"

    "Umm.... ignorance of the rule doesn't make it less relevant."

    "Still gotta give it up to the Pats kicker. He did kick two FGs in the snow."

    "Thought Woodson knew which play the Pats were going to run. Still the Raiders couldn't win?"
     
  11. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    There really are only two ways to look at the Tuck Game.

    1. Correct Call. You may not like it. But, it's a rule. We win.

    2. Incorrect call. Raiders screwed. We're even. Just took 25 years for justice.
    Yes, I'm still bitter about the 76 playoff game. We're even.
     
  12. PatsWickedPissah

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    I do not understand how anyone who knows the rule can pick #2. To make matters worse for the Raiduz, Woodson delivered an illegal 15 yd penalty 'blow to the head' to Brady on that same play. Ref missed the call.

    I'm still wicked pissed about '76 but the 21st Century Pats have quelled that bitterness more than I ever imagined.
     
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  13. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    We are talking about Raider fans. Common sense, understanding of the rules of
    the game? Not their style. They do like to dress up like it's Halloween though.
     
  14. PAPatsjunkie

    PAPatsjunkie On the Game Day Roster

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    They called this yesterday in the Cowboys-Steelers game when it looked like Romo had fumbled.
     
  15. Funktopus

    Funktopus On the Game Day Roster

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    Speaking of not making sense, how about equating intimidating toughness with wearing plastic toy shoulderpads from Childsword?
     
  16. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

    HELP PLEASE:

    Does anybody have any links to any other "tuck" calls??

    I need help to try to finish my discussion with an idiot "Falcon" fan....guy thinks he is a genius because he has a 170 I/Q and lets everyone know it.

    Read his responses to what I sent him - Below..

    Response # 1:

    I read what you sent and disagree that is what occurred during the game.

    Response # 2
    __________________________________________________________
    He fumbled. His arm was coming down. The only people in the world that believe he didn't are non-Patriot fans. You are by far in the minority.


    "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

    ____________________________________________________________

    What I sent him:

    Michael, rules are rules, since NE is playing Oakland Sunday, the subject has come up, evidently many in Oakland refuse to accept the call was correct, by rule. Since you are one of the few that also share that belief, I thought, perhaps, some facts might help you out, since they are so readily available. There have been several times when the "tuck" rule has been applied in recent years - they all pretty much look the same, the key is trying to judge a QB's intent after his arm comes forward with the ball is not possible.


    1) Start with the rule itself:


    NFL Rule 3, Section 21, Article 2, Note 2. When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble.[4]


    .Under the rule, a quarterback's throwing motion begins when he raises the ball in his hand and begins to move his arm forward; that motion doesn't end until the quarterback tucks the ball back against his body, making him a runner. If the ball comes loose any time in between, it's an incomplete pass, not a fumble. Only if the quarterback reloads -- and raises the ball again to start a new throwing motion -- can he fumble, as long as the ball is knocked loose before his arm begins to move forward again




    2)There really are only two ways to look at the Tuck Game.

    1. Correct Call. You may not like it. But, it's a rule. We win.

    2. Incorrect call. Raiders screwed. We're even. Just took 25 years for justice.
    Yes, I'm still bitter about the 76 playoff game. We're even.



    I do not understand how anyone who knows the rule can pick #2. To make matters worse for the Raiduz, Woodson delivered an illegal 15 yd penalty 'blow to the head' to Brady on that same play. Ref missed the call.

     
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  17. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey


    FGS,

    here you go. This is the most recent time I know of it occuring. It was earlier this year AZ vs. Dallas.


    NFL Game Center: Play-by-Play - Dallas Cowboys at Arizona Cardinals - 2008 6


    Dallas Cowboys at (4:12 2nd quarter) (Shotgun) 9-T.Romo sacked at DAL 0 for -10 yards (90-D.Dockett). FUMBLES (90-D.Dockett) [90-D.Dockett], RECOVERED by ARI-94-A.Smith at DAL 0. TOUCHDOWN. Dallas challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) 9-T.Romo pass incomplete short middle [90-D.Dockett]. Tuck rule was used.


    Note: I bet you could find a clip of this somewhere
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  18. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

    Lookie lookie.........go to 4:25 in the clip.

    http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d801eeac6

    NFL Video Galleries
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  19. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nah. I still remember Ben Dreith and 1976. That call influenced the outcome of the game a lot more than Coleman's. I actually believe that the tuck call was the right call, but if a Raider's fan disagrees roll the tape of Sugar Bear's roughing of Ken Stabler, a hit that even Stabler says was clean.
     
  20. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Best way to make the argument is to say....If the rule is so bad, why did the NFL decide to KEEP the rule after the play? it was the right call then, it is the right call now, and will be the rule for the forseeable future
     
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