The truth about the PatsFans draft experts

[Deus Irae]

I don't understand why so many people are making claims after only one round that this pick is idiotic because it doesn't meet the teams biggest needs. Have people forgotten that they still have three more picks in the 2nd and now have one in the 3rd to address some of their DE, OLB, TE, WR, RB, and OL needs? Have people forgotten how drafting for need and reaching for some players has gotten teams in trouble with high picks before countless amounts of time?

Maybe BB agrees that something needs to be done to improve the pass rush or the wide receiver position or the TE position, but the players he has targeted will be available with these next four picks. If that is the case, then why would he waste a pick in the first round to grab a player that either doesn't fit his scheme or can be taken 10, 15, or even 20 picks later? By waiting to address the other positions, BB was able grab a player at a position that he thought needed to be improved where the talent level drops off significantly after the top five players this year instead of trying to find a diamond in the rough later in the draft.

Ummmm...... Hence the "in a vacuum" portion. :bricks:

 

[RayClay]

The problem with judging the selection is most likely the lack info on the player. Frankly, I read almost all the draft analysis and didn't even know who he was. Kyle Wilson has been on all the shows.

He was projected low first, high second, just where he was picked. If there was a lack of information, it was due to the media "experts" who are paid to give information on all possible picks, especially 1st or 2nd rounders.

Unfortunately, rather than dispassionately doing that job, or better yet, doing that plus getting insight form the GMs, coaches and others who directly know which players interest them, they have decided they are so smart they know better than current football people who the hot picks are, which players they should pick.

How embarassing to show you can't even provide information on first round picks, while purporting to be draft "experts".

 

[RayClay]

As far as the vaccuum thing goes, that's the great advantage of having bunched picks. There are obviously many players left, thought to interest the Pats, that might have been drafted higher.

If the Patriots have similar grades on some, they could easily pick up guys projected as 1st rounders. doesn't mean McCourty is "better", it just means they like something about him and are willing to take an either or of bunch of WR/OLB/DE/TE they see as comparable in value.

They can move around or stay put.

 

[BKBroiler]

Ummmm...... Hence the "in a vacuum" portion. :bricks:

My post wasn't just towards you, but towards the hoard of posters who hate the pick because it wasn't the player they wanted or the sexy pick. I just used your statement because I didn't feel like going back and quoting the hundreds of posts from the last 24 hours that bashed the pick without any reasoning or just restated the garbage that came out of Kiper's mouth about him being a special teams player.

Also, that "in a vacuum" statement is a joke. Its just giving you an out after overreacting to ONE pick to say that you never bashed it when BB goes back and drafts players to address other problem areas later. If you didn't like the pick, then that is fine, but have an informed reason as to why you didn't like it instead of calling it idiotic. Did you like another corner better? Did you think that there is another corner rated lower that would fit the scheme just as well? If so, why? Did you like another player on the board better that fit the system (I'm talking about guys like Odrick not Hughes who is a 3rd down player at best in the Pats system)? Is he the only guy that can fill that need or is there someone with a lower value who can do the same thing? Why did you like him?

 

[eagle eye]

The one thing that kept going through my head after I realised that CB was a need is that BB never looks back, he always looks forward. He identified CB as a big need for games that lie ahead.

The big mistake a lot of us make is that we look at last season, decide where the biggest weaknesses were in our opinion and proceed to decide on who should be drafted based on that.

I really feel I got owned by BB yet again last night, I was so stupid not to realise that we needed to pick up a potential shutdown corner with the additions the Jets and Dolphins have made at WR.

 

[BKBroiler]

He was projected low first, high second, just where he was picked. If there was a lack of information, it was due to the media "experts" who are paid to give information on all possible picks, especially 1st or 2nd rounders.

Unfortunately, rather than dispassionately doing that job, or better yet, doing that plus getting insight form the GMs, coaches and others who directly know which players interest them, they have decided they are so smart they know better than current football people who the hot picks are, which players they should pick.

How embarassing to show you can't even provide information on first round picks, while purporting to be draft "experts".

That is by far my favorite post about the draft that I've ever read on this board because it describes Kiper, McShay, and the rest perfectly.

My favorite example of this from last night is when they cut to McShay with about three minutes left when the Pats were drafting at 24. The ticker on the bottom had already switched about a minute before to say that Dallas had traded up and the Pats and Schefter's twitter accounts both announced the trade. Yet McShay goes on for about a minute saying who the Pats should take (of course he doesn't mention McCourty)and that Dez Bryant will be going 25. That was until somebody told him in his earpiece that the Cowboys traded up, so McShay stumbling over his words says well actually maybe they should trade down with someone like Dallas.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ummmm...... Hence the "in a vacuum" portion. :bricks:

Too bad that if you actually looked at it in a vacuum (which means taking absolutely NOTHING into consideration) You couldn't form an opinion one way or the other. Because there is nothing to form the opinion on.

So, one can only conclude that if you think it was an idiotic pick you had to take something into consideration and that means you didn't actually look at the pick in a vacuum.

 

[BKBroiler]

The one thing that kept going through my head after I realised that CB was a need is that BB never looks back, he always looks forward. He identified CB as a big need for games that lie ahead.

The big mistake a lot of us make is that we look at last season, decide where the biggest weaknesses were in our opinion and proceed to decide on who should be drafted based on that.

I really feel I got owned by BB yet again last night, I was so stupid not to realise that we needed to pick up a potential shutdown corner with the additions the Jets and Dolphins have made at WR.

I don't think that you should feel that you got owned by BB. What looks to have happened was that CB was one of his top needs, but he partly made the McCourty pick because the dropoff between McCourty, Wilson, and Robinson to the next tier of corners was much greater than the dropoff in DE/OLB, TE, WR, and OL. Because of that he decided to take the CB first and believes that players of similar value will be available to fill those other positions in the 2nd/3rd/4th rounds.

 

[Deus Irae]

My post wasn't just towards you, but towards the hoard of posters who hate the pick because it wasn't the player they wanted or the sexy pick. I just used your statement because I didn't feel like going back and quoting the hundreds of posts from the last 24 hours that bashed the pick without any reasoning or just restated the garbage that came out of Kiper's mouth about him being a special teams player.

Also, that "in a vacuum" statement is a joke. Its just giving you an out after overreacting to ONE pick to say that you never bashed it when BB goes back and drafts players to address other problem areas later. If you didn't like the pick, then that is fine, but have an informed reason as to why you didn't like it instead of calling it idiotic. Did you like another corner better? Did you think that there is another corner rated lower that would fit the scheme just as well? If so, why? Did you like another player on the board better that fit the system (I'm talking about guys like Odrick not Hughes who is a 3rd down player at best in the Pats system)? Is he the only guy that can fill that need or is there someone with a lower value who can do the same thing? Why did you like him?

Look, the team had just one pick. It was not a position of greatest need, even though I definitely had it as a need position. Those positions would be DE and OLB. IN A VACUUM (as a stand alone move rather than noted with the rest of the draft moves/without the entire draft for context/etc... however you'd care to denote something being separate from everything else), therefore, it's a bad choice because bigger needs were not addressed.

Here you go:

One of the (to my way of thinking) many downsides of this new draft format is that we're now rating round one in a vacuum. It's unfair to the teams and players. I don't like this pick in isolation. In fact, I freakin' hate this pick in isolation. However, tomorrow could yield promising prospects at the positions I felt were much more in need of addressing, and that would change my mind.

Unless someone pulls a "With the first pick in the draft, the Rams select Ima Bigfoot, kicker from Tennessee", it's going to be too soon for most one-selection teams to have any sort of a fair draft grade applied, or to even grade the pick. The most that's fair, to my way of thinking (and I've done it with the CB), is to talk about it in isolation with the understanding that the opinion could change as things move forward.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/335031-albert-breer-meltdown.html#post1797754

Because we don't have concrete information on others planning to steal him, we don't have information on the Patriots trading for talented veterans at the DE, OLB or ILB positions, and we don't know the rest of the draft. All we know is one move, in a vacuum.

As a move in a vacuum, this was an idiotic pick. The team needed a CB, but it needed the above positions much more desperately.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/334980-so-lets-take-good-look-mccourty-shall-we-page2.html#post1797725

I think you're overreacting about the pick a bit. Wilhite is not a starter in the NFL. Wheatley is either ensconced in the BB memorial doghouse or just hasn't gotten past the second wrist injury. Springs couldn't hold the fort at CB last year, and he's now a year older.

This was a need pick. I'd have thought second/third round, after DE, OLB and maybe ILB and OG, but it was still a definite need IMO. I think the draft running just one round last night has made this pick look much worse than it's likely to seem once we see what the team does tonight.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/334980-so-lets-take-good-look-mccourty-shall-we-page5.html#post1798495

I hope that eases your mind.

 

[Deus Irae]

Too bad that if you actually looked at it in a vacuum (which means taking absolutely NOTHING into consideration) You couldn't form an opinion one way or the other. Because there is nothing to form the opinion on.

So, one can only conclude that if you think it was an idiotic pick you had to take something into consideration and that means you didn't actually look at the pick in a vacuum.

Yes, looking at the pick alone (a cornerback drafted on a team that has taken 3 CBS in the last 2 drafts), rather than in full draft context (which I explained multiple times, as you can see in my post above, including the very posts where I was using the word vacuum) it's a bad pick. I will not respond to you again on this topic.

 

[BKBroiler]

Look, the team had just one pick. It was not a position of greatest need, even though I definitely had it as a need position. Those positions would be DE and OLB. IN A VACUUM (as a stand alone move rather than noted with the rest of the draft moves/without the entire draft for context/etc... however you'd care to denote something being separate from everything else), therefore, it's a bad choice because bigger needs were not addressed.

Here you go:



http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/335031-albert-breer-meltdown.html#post1797754



http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/334980-so-lets-take-good-look-mccourty-shall-we-page2.html#post1797725



http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/334980-so-lets-take-good-look-mccourty-shall-we-page5.html#post1798495

I hope that eases your mind.

So what you are saying is that McCourty is a bad pick because you think that they should have reached to take a DE or OLB that they liked that will most likely be available with their next picks instead of taking a CB that they liked that was guaranteed to be taken in the next few picks (apparently the Jets, Minnesota, and Saints all wanted him). I'm pretty sure BB would rather have both players than one and another guy he had to settle for.

 

[Deus Irae]

So what you are saying is that McCourty is a bad pick because you think that they should have reached to take a DE or OLB that they liked that will most likely be available with their next picks instead of taking a CB that they liked that was guaranteed to be taken in the next few picks (apparently the Jets, Minnesota, and Saints all wanted him). I'm pretty sure BB would rather have both players than one and another guy he had to settle for.

What I said was self-explanatory, so talking about reaches makes no sense. Are you saying that no defensive ends or OLBs were taken in round one?

 

[BKBroiler]

What I said was self-explanatory, so talking about reaches makes no sense. Are you saying that no defensive ends or OLBs were taken in round one?

What I said was self-explanatory too, but let me explain it to you since you can't understand. McCourty was the top player on their draft board. That means that any DE or OLB available had to be ranked below him. So why would they reach to take a DE or OLB based on their draft board (besides you wanting them to) while passing over the player they had ranked the highest? Plus factor in that there were only 2 other highly rated CB's left after McCourty, but there are a bunch of 3-4 DE's and OLB's left.

You talking about vacuums and backtracking and trying to say that I said there were no DE's or OLB's makes you sound like you don't understand this whole process.

 

[Run DMC]

I heard rumor that we had our sights on Dan Williams and chose McCourty only after the cards snagged Williams.

 

[BKBroiler]

I heard rumor that we had our sights on Dan Williams and chose McCourty only after the cards snagged Williams.

I actually wouldn't have been surprised at that. The only problem I have with that rumor is that there are multiple sources saying that McCourty would've been the pick at 22 and 24 if the Pats were unable to trade down. I am not saying though that those writers are correct since they could've been fed a standard line to not tip the team's hand.