The Truth about the Patriots

[Ring 6]

The only way you see those posters more is if you have AndyJohnson, Eagle Eye, MoLewisRocks and several other over-the-top homers on ignore. That group is ubiquitous with its unthinking backing of all things and moves Patriots.

Maybe if you keep saying this it will help people believe you went you are losing yet another argument and resort to falling back on the facts beig irelevant because you accuse them of being biased.
But, hey, you've never been wrong in your mind, so how else do you keep that perfect record without a good way to bury your head in the sand.

 

[signbabybrady]

Here is the thing. A rational person with no agenda considers things in context.
It is easy to find things to gripe about. Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL but I can find instances of poor play. Why? Because everyone has instances of poor play. I can find instances of poor play in every other QB as well. If I limit my discussion to those instances without recognizing their frequency or severity, I can argue my way into Tom Brady being a bad QB.
It works the same way with decision making. BB has made a tremendous amount of bad decisions. But in context he has made a much lower percentage of bad decisions than anyone else out there. I can argue my way into BB is a bad decision maker. Its as silly as the Brady example.
Most of the posting on this board revolves around judging decisions and discussing expectations, including discussing the expectation of whehter decisions were good or poor.
Rational, fair and balanced thinking would give the doubt to BB until proven otherwise because of his track record. Its foolish to suggest that we have the information available that he does in making a decision. This brings us to the agenda based poster.
Many posters just come here to vent. If they don't like the way things are going they vent, and their agenda tends to be that they would rather aim low and have the team exceed expectations than be set up for a fall. The success of the franchise has exacerbated that.
Then you have posters such as Deus Irae, crippled by narcicism and using their posts to make them feel like they are smart. When the argument fails, it is very simply, you call the other poster a homer, because in one felt swoop you dismiss their point of view as biased.
Of course it is reasonable to question BBs decisions in the proper context because many of them will be wrong. But when it is done to expand an agenda, or done by ignoring context and facts, it ruins the board.
Go ahead and question everything as long as it is backed up with facts and a reasonable argument, and not the ridiculous assumption that a poster can make better football decisions than BB.
If you like to call me a homer, fire away. Because in the BB era I have been more supportive of the decisions, more in agreement with the philosophy and more ready to give benefit of the doubt than most. And that makes me more right than most. If I were a 'homer' in the Rod Rust era, then I would be worried.

Lets see someone defend the chicken little stance as well as that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hey....did you forget someone?

No, I just didn't feel the need to list every single homer, especially since I was focusing mainly on the ones that are just this side of insane. But it's great that y'all are coming forward. It reinforces where I was going in my post without people getting huffy because I named them.

 

[AzPatsFan]

No, I just didn't feel the need to list every single homer, especially since I was focusing mainly on the ones that are just this side of insane. But it's great that y'all are coming forward. It reinforces where I was going in my post without people getting huffy because I named them.

Don't forget to add me. I like the opinions of AJ and patsfanken. I wear my Homerism as a badge of honor in my posting name. I am the Patsfan in AZ!

Deus, you do occasionally have insight, unlike bro, screaming, and the lil captain, and half the Felger ass wipes who criticise everything, and possess their pet draft binkie. Including why didn't Belichcik pick up the mahrvelous tackle from Okeefenokee U, who is 5'11, and 210 Lbs who fell because of a bum knee, who can always beef-up overnite, and go on to be a superstar at 3-4 DE!

I especially like the ones who complain that its Belichick's fault, that a guy was injured. It is what happens sometimes playing football; but not to them. Career ending injuries are the Coach's fault, always.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

You want answers?

You want answers?

You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has formations. And those formations have to be run by men with pads and cleats. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Deus Irae? Bill Belichick have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mankins and you curse the draft picks. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what Bill Belichick knows: that Mankins holdout , while tragic, probably wins game. And his torn sweatshirt existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at supebowl parties, you want Bill Belichick making draft decisions. You need BB in the draft room.

BB use words like tiger right 3 wide...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. BB has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a fans who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Lombardis, he provided to New England, then questions the manner in which he provided them! He'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some pads and stand in at right guard. Either way, nobody don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

 

[The_Riddler]

Can I have a sip ?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

You want answers?

You want answers?

You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has formations. And those formations have to be run by men with pads and cleats. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Deus Irae? Bill Belichick have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mankins and you curse the draft picks. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what Bill Belichick knows: that Mankins holdout , while tragic, probably wins game. And his torn sweatshirt existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at supebowl parties, you want Bill Belichick making draft decisions. You need BB in the draft room.

BB use words like tiger right 3 wide...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. BB has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a fans who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Lombardis, he provided to New England, then questions the manner in which he provided them! He'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some pads and stand in at right guard. Either way, nobody don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Well done.

 

[emoney_33]

Here is the thing. A rational person with no agenda considers things in context.
It is easy to find things to gripe about. Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL but I can find instances of poor play. Why? Because everyone has instances of poor play. I can find instances of poor play in every other QB as well. If I limit my discussion to those instances without recognizing their frequency or severity, I can argue my way into Tom Brady being a bad QB.
It works the same way with decision making. BB has made a tremendous amount of bad decisions. But in context he has made a much lower percentage of bad decisions than anyone else out there. I can argue my way into BB is a bad decision maker. Its as silly as the Brady example.
Most of the posting on this board revolves around judging decisions and discussing expectations, including discussing the expectation of whehter decisions were good or poor.
Rational, fair and balanced thinking would give the doubt to BB until proven otherwise because of his track record. Its foolish to suggest that we have the information available that he does in making a decision. This brings us to the agenda based poster.
Many posters just come here to vent. If they don't like the way things are going they vent, and their agenda tends to be that they would rather aim low and have the team exceed expectations than be set up for a fall. The success of the franchise has exacerbated that.
Then you have posters such as Deus Irae, crippled by narcicism and using their posts to make them feel like they are smart. When the argument fails, it is very simply, you call the other poster a homer, because in one felt swoop you dismiss their point of view as biased.
Of course it is reasonable to question BBs decisions in the proper context because many of them will be wrong. But when it is done to expand an agenda, or done by ignoring context and facts, it ruins the board.
Go ahead and question everything as long as it is backed up with facts and a reasonable argument, and not the ridiculous assumption that a poster can make better football decisions than BB.
If you like to call me a homer, fire away. Because in the BB era I have been more supportive of the decisions, more in agreement with the philosophy and more ready to give benefit of the doubt than most. And that makes me more right than most. If I were a 'homer' in the Rod Rust era, then I would be worried.

This past draft, some people went on for pages and pages arguing about the McCourty pick "in a vacuum". For some, it seems that absurdity is preferable over admitting to having less than perfect knowledge/understanding of a situation.

I also find it funny at how often I've read the response "the homers are just as bad as the chicken littles", but never the opposite. Anyway, back to ad hominem, I'm a homer and thus know nothing.

Is it Sunday yet?

 

[The Brandon Five]

You want answers?

You want answers?

You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has formations. And those formations have to be run by men with pads and cleats. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Deus Irae? Bill Belichick have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mankins and you curse the draft picks. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what Bill Belichick knows: that Mankins holdout , while tragic, probably wins game. And his torn sweatshirt existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at supebowl parties, you want Bill Belichick making draft decisions. You need BB in the draft room.

BB use words like tiger right 3 wide...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. BB has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a fans who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Lombardis, he provided to New England, then questions the manner in which he provided them! He'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some pads and stand in at right guard. Either way, nobody don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

 

[mgcolby]

You want answers?

You want answers?

You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has formations. And those formations have to be run by men with pads and cleats. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Deus Irae? Bill Belichick have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mankins and you curse the draft picks. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what Bill Belichick knows: that Mankins holdout , while tragic, probably wins game. And his torn sweatshirt existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at supebowl parties, you want Bill Belichick making draft decisions. You need BB in the draft room.

BB use words like tiger right 3 wide...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. BB has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a fans who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Lombardis, he provided to New England, then questions the manner in which he provided them! He'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some pads and stand in at right guard. Either way, nobody don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

That is classic! good job!!!:rocker:

 

[Boston Boxer]

I've seen a lot of negative whining over the last couple of days. Heres the Truth, there are 31 other teams with GMS, coaches, and players (some very very good) that are being payed miliions of dollars. The only goal of those gms coaches and players is to win the SB under penalty of losing their jobs. No one can win the SB every year, especially the way the league is set up. Most SBs have been one by a small number of teams, i'll go out on a limb and say that only half of all teams have won a SB in their history. Between Kraft and Belichick the pats have gone to Five SB's and have won three, not bad. For those that think that this is a mediocre combination go follow another team like the Colts, Steelers, Cowboys, or Chargers for example, they're all winning teams but they haven't been as successfull as the Pats. They make just as many mistakes if not more than BB otherwise they'd have a better record over the last Fifteen years.


Like Parcells said "You are what you're record says you are"

would you relax...it is a message board. People can speak their mind without being told they are negative. I just hate when people question fans loyalty and then tell them to root for another team.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

would you relax...it is a message board. People can speak their mind without being told they are negative. I just hate when people question fans loyalty and then tell them to root for another team.

Jets fan, huh?

 

[Captain Cliche]

The truth about the Patriots:

1. Classy ownership that doesn't meddle with the coach/gm. Arguably the best owner in the business. It all starts with ownership.

2. Future hall of fame coach...arguably the best active coach in the NFL, who has enough lattitude and security to manage the team with a long term view. Who is able to use low draft picks on luxury players like punters, place kickers, long snappers, and the occasoinal flier on a QB (this would be a good argument for trading down and stockpiling late draft choices).

3. Arguably the best quarterback in the NFL. I love it when you count 2..3..4..seconds in the pocket and you know Brady is going to shred the opposing D.

4. Full seats. Look at the Jets selling out their future to try and fill the stadium. No need for desperation here.

5. Cap management. I love their negotiating style. It makes me proud when I hear from fans of other teams saying, "Belichick wouldn't take that crap." It sickens me to see Rexy kissing Revis's butt. Jerry West's advice to Danny Ainge was to never let any one player hold the franchise hostage. Is it a drag to see players like Branch and Samuel walk, but such is life in the NFL. There will always be desperate teams willing to way overpay for "name" players to fill some seats.

Do they make mistakes and have some real head scratcher moves?...absolutely. Have a few years of poor drafting put them in rebuilding mode? I believe so and it also seems they have righted that ship.

We can b!tch all we want, but we have the perfect storm of ownership, GM/Coach, quaterback, and philosophy that puts out a quality and consistantly competitive product every year without the trashy behavior and negative headlines. You can count me as a homer if I prefer to look on the bright side and gratefully enjoy the ride.

 

[Patjew]

The over-the-top homers are no better than the over-the-top Chicken Littles when it comes to failure to think.

They may not be better, but the homers are closer to what a sports team fan should be, IMO. Unconditional love and support coming your way, Pats.

 

[Off The Grid]

I'm ok with either side so long as they have thought out arguments. I don't have to agree with said argument to consider it a valid thought process, but something more than "In BB we trust!" for the homers or a blanket generality about "You can't win without X all the time!" from the chicken littles.

Also, when one side presents a fact that I dispute (perhaps a statistic that I feel doesn't accurately portray what happens on the field), and I dispute that fact and thus the argument, rebuttals of "Keep drinking that Kool-Aid " etc, are frustrating.

Apparently you can't argue against a naysayer without being a homer, and you can't argue against a homer without being a chicken little.

Honestly, it's the attitude of most of these extremists that sucks, not their opinions.

BRAVO!! Well SAID, Brother!! :rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

The only way you see those posters more is if you have AndyJohnson, Eagle Eye, MoLewisRocks and several other over-the-top homers on ignore. That group is ubiquitous with its unthinking backing of all things and moves Patriots.

That's utterly ridiculous.

I can't speak to Eagle Eye, though the name rings a bell, but AJ + Mo are two of the posters whose drafts I most look forward to reading: Insightful, thoughtful, and objective.

I enjoy yours, a great deal, as well, for what it's worth.

 

[Off The Grid]

You want answers?

(I think I'm entitled to them.)

You want answers?

(I want the truth!!)

You can't handle the truth!

Son, we live in a world that has formations. And those formations have to be run by men with pads and cleats. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Deus Irae? Bill Belichick has a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mankins and you curse the draft picks.

You have that luxury.

You have the luxury of not knowing what Bill Belichick knows: that Mankins's holdout, while tragic, probably wins games. And his torn sweatshirt existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games.

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at SuperBowl parties, you want Bill Belichick in that draft room. You need BB in that draft room!!

Bill Belichick uses words like Tiger...Right...3 Wide...He uses these words as the backbone of a life spent defending against the Pass and the Run. You use 'em as a punchline.

Bill Belichick has neither the time, nor the inclination, to explain himself to a fan who rises and sleeps in the glow of the very Lombardis he provides to New England, then questions the manner in which he provided them! He'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some pads and stand in at Right Guard. Either way, nobody gives a damn what you think you're entitled to!!

:rocker: Absolutely EPIC, Brother Hood!! :rocker:

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

:rocker: Absolutely EPIC, Brother Hood!! :rocker:

:yeeha: I'm ready to reenlist.

 

[Kontradiction]

I've seen a lot of negative whining over the last couple of days. Heres the Truth, there are 31 other teams with GMS, coaches, and players (some very very good) that are being payed miliions of dollars. The only goal of those gms coaches and players is to win the SB under penalty of losing their jobs. No one can win the SB every year, especially the way the league is set up. Most SBs have been one by a small number of teams, i'll go out on a limb and say that only half of all teams have won a SB in their history. Between Kraft and Belichick the pats have gone to Five SB's and have won three, not bad. For those that think that this is a mediocre combination go follow another team like the Colts, Steelers, Cowboys, or Chargers for example, they're all winning teams but they haven't been as successfull as the Pats. They make just as many mistakes if not more than BB otherwise they'd have a better record over the last Fifteen years.


Like Parcells said "You are what you're record says you are"

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. I don't think anybody here or on any other forum can deny what the Pats have done in the past. They've been great, no doubt. It's been a sheer joy and a pleasure to follow this team over the last decade and I look forward to a new decade with a new competitive team.

That said, any rational person looking at the Pats has seen their fair share of slam dunk personnel decisions as well as their fair share of bad personnel decisions. Belichick, like everyone else, is human. He is prone to making mistakes and has admitted so in the past whether it be by word of mouth or by his actions. Pointing out these mistakes as well as weaknesses on the current roster certainly doesn't warrant a response to go follow other teams. Being told to root for other teams also isn't a good response to someone who just wants to see the holes on the team filled in order to give the Pats the most competitive team that they can possibly get. After all, isn't having the most competitive team possible the name of the game? In the end, discussion is what this message board is all about. Some people see mistakes being made in some areas and slam dunks in other areas. Some people only see mistakes being made all over the board, and some people only see good decisions being made all over the board. The point is to discuss those differences in a fashion befitting fans of a single team. Otherwise, what is the point of posting here? Should we just all hold hands, agree, and sing "Kumbaya" together? That would be pretty boring if you ask me.

As for the discussion in the rest of the thread, both extremist sides are pretty bad. Mostly, I consider the Chicken Little types to be idiots and people who are constantly negative. That gets annoying after a while. However, they are correct in some aspects, just as the homers are correct in some aspects as well. With that said, I find that disagreeing with the hardcore homers lends itself to being attacked with far more venom than disagreeing with Chicken Littles. Don't get me wrong, I've seen my fair share of venom from both sides. But I can't honestly say that I've been attacked, on a personal level, with the amount of venom from a CL the way I've been attacked by some of the homers on this forum. But that's just me, though.

 

[DarrylS]

You want answers?

You want answers?

You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has formations. And those formations have to be run by men with pads and cleats. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Deus Irae? Bill Belichick have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mankins and you curse the draft picks. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what Bill Belichick knows: that Mankins holdout , while tragic, probably wins game. And his torn sweatshirt existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at supebowl parties, you want Bill Belichick making draft decisions. You need BB in the draft room.

BB use words like tiger right 3 wide...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. BB has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a fans who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very Lombardis, he provided to New England, then questions the manner in which he provided them! He'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some pads and stand in at right guard. Either way, nobody don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant...

Now contrast this to the redundant, tiring article of Dan Shaunessy this morning, he believes he is entitled and can handle the truth....

Playing the usual game of show and don’t tell at Gillette - The Boston Globe