The trade

[RayClay]

Vrabel had his physical Friday. In other words, this was essentially a done deal before free agency had barely begun, if not before. I had, in fact, speculated that there was a deal in place in a thread prior to the start of all this. There was no need to hurry this as much as they did, but they did it right away anyway. Even with Vrabel's bonus coming due, they had more than 12 hours to get this done.

Don't know that you're addressing my post Deus. I said a few weeks not 12 hours. I don't know how anyone assumes they had solid offers better than this.

If other teams sign other QBs, we could have had to settle for less. They know we had to trade him, there's absolutely no doubt, so suitors had the leverage.

I'm guessing they are going for a big time pass rusher and maybe more LB talent in the draft. Vrabel's had a bad back since at least 2006. I've got one and I recognize the look of somebody with nerve pain I saw in him in the Colts playoff loss. They need to get younger or more athletic.

 

[Deus Irae]

There is NO EVIDENCE TB had interest in Cassel. They had interest in Cutler.

There is evidence that there was interest in a deal. Cutler, for example, thinks he's still on the block.

Seriously, it's pretty clear that this deal was in place long before any form of desperation would have set in. Why that's so hard for people to accept is beyond me this evening. It's not as if it's even debatable at this point, unless the Patriots have millions of dollars worth of player signings already in their pocket and unannounced.

 

[JFK]

I am fully confident we will use the cap space on a combination of FA from other teams and extended one or more of our big name FA class of 2010. Of course I can't prove it will happen right now, we'll have to give that a little time.

We can wait till after the draft to extend one or more of our big name FA class of 2010. We could have used the 4mil of cap space and the trade or release of Vrable to sign a Peppers or Bodden player.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I'm getting over it. It's a done deal and there is nothing I can do about it. All the apologists can spin it any way they want. Cap space, best deal available blah blah blah. But you all know damn well that he was worth 2 2nd rounders and if you can't admit it then you are complete homers. I never thought he was worth 2 1st rounders like the franchise tag dictates but 2 second rounders was a done deal.

If I was a Chiefs fan I would be sleeping pretty good tonight.

He is if your not saddled with his franchise tag also. That lowered his trade value.
The other players that were traded for as much or more didnt have the franchise tag and the high cost of paying the player also. That also factors into the equation on what a players worth.

 

[BelichickFan]

There is evidence that there was interest in a deal. Cutler, for example, thinks he's still on the block.

I don't know what to tell you. Denver, evidently, wasn't willing to trade Cutler for Cassel.

Maybe Denver wanted our #2 with Cassel. Then you could argue we would be better off doing that. But as it was, there was no deal. There was no option. Denver would be getting Cassel for Cutler, does that sound like a good deal to you ? We would have had to add to the deal and weren't willing to do so. There was no option to get TB's #1. TB didn't want to do their #1 for Cassel and Denver didn't want to do Cutler for Cassel. It would have been nice if they had wanted to but they didn't.

 

[BelichickFan]

We can wait till after the draft to extend one or more of our big name FA class of 2010. We could have used the 4mil of cap space and the trade or release of Vrable to sign a Peppers or Bodden player.

Let's see how FA shakes out. Geez.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't know what to tell you. Denver, evidently, wasn't willing to trade Cutler for Cassel.

Maybe Denver wanted our #2 with Cassel. Then you could argue we would be better off doing that. But as it was, there was no deal. There was no option. Denver would be getting Cassel for Cutler, does that sound like a good deal to you ? We would have had to add to the deal and weren't willing to do so. There was no option to get TB's #1. TB didn't want to do their #1 for Cassel and Denver didn't want to do Cutler for Cassel. It would have been nice if they had wanted to but they didn't.

Again...

The basic parameters of the deal were set no later than Friday afternoon. To claim that there was no interest and "it is what it is" is simply wrong in the face of the evidence:

The Denver Broncos may have seriously damaged their relationship with quarterback Jay Cutler.

A source close to the situation confirmed the Broncos were trying to acquire quarterback Matt Cassel from the New England Patriots by dangling Cutler, their Pro Bowl quarterback.

ChiefsPlanet - View Single Post - Football More on Cutler: "Spurned"...ROTFL

Now, if the reports turn out to be false, that changes the story slightly, because some evidence is removed from the picture. Even in that case, however, it should be clear that waiting less than 18 hours to pull the trigger is not the way to heighten interest.

 

[BelichickFan]

That's fine but the story doesn't say Denver would do it straight up. We don't know the exact details. But it's safe to say that a deal wasn't there to be made because one of the teams wasn't willing to do it. It's unlikely that team was the Patriots although there's a small chance they preferred a high #2 in a deep draft. There's a small chance it was TB but it's hard to believe they wouldn't trade a mid #1 for Cutler. More likely the "dangling" of Cutler wasn't for Cassel straight up but for Cassel and something. Cassel and Maroney. Cassel and #2. Cassel and something.

 

[Deus Irae]

A follow up.....

ChiefsPlanet - View Single Post - Football More on Cutler: "Spurned"...ROTFL

 

[Deus Irae]

That's fine but the story doesn't say Denver would do it straight up. We don't know the exact details. But it's safe to say that a deal wasn't there to be made because one of the teams wasn't willing to do it. It's unlikely that team was the Patriots although there's a small chance they preferred a high #2 in a deep draft. There's a small chance it was TB but it's hard to believe they wouldn't trade a mid #1 for Cutler. More likely the "dangling" of Cutler wasn't for Cassel straight up but for Cassel and something. Cassel and Maroney. Cassel and #2. Cassel and something.

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not correct.

 

[makoute]

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not correct.

From all I've read, TB and Detroit wanted Cutler, it wasn't Denver who wanted Cassel. So for any trade to happen, Denver would essentially be trading Cutler for Cassel, and it seems like they weren't willing to do so.

 

[BelichickFan]

A follow up.....

ChiefsPlanet - View Single Post - Football More on Cutler: "Spurned"...ROTFL

Would I have preferred the 12th pick to the 34th ? Yes. But I'm guessing it wasn't offered or there was more to it. A Chiefs fan quoting Mortensen doesn't convince me. If the Broncos were offering that we can expect to see Pioli trade Cassel to the Bronocs for that pick, right ?

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not correct.

You don't know that. Neither do I but your argument fails logic to me.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Just so I fully understand what you two are arguing about. Deus, you're saying that a deal WAS in the works, and BB bailed out? and this info is from a KC fan quoting MORT? So in other words, there's really no actual evidence that a trade was gonna happen. Just more guessing on Morts part. We've heard so many false reports this week. Why are you so convinced that Mort is right? Since when do we believe everything the media says?

 

[Deus Irae]

You don't know that. Neither do I but your argument fails logic to me.

Then re-read the previous posts, because it's pretty clear. But, since people are intent on deliberately missing the painfully obvious, here's Cutler's take for you:

Video Library - cbs4denver.com

and more on the topic:

Broncos Forums - View Single Post - Cutler speaks about trade talks.

Broncos Forums - View Single Post - Cutler speaks about trade talks.

 

[TP76]

According to Denver, they were approached by Tampa and Detroit about Cutler for Cassel and a pick. Denver said no, at least that's their story.

Meanwhile Cutler's feelings are hurt, thinks he's still on the block, and he blames McDaniels. Looks like Josh gets his first test in the big chair right off the bat. Based on Cutler's wacko comments, he's got the not so envious task of getting the most important player on offense back on board.

 

[BelichickFan]

Just so I fully understand what you two are arguing about. Deus, you're saying that a deal WAS in the works, and BB bailed out? and this info is from a KC fan quoting MORT? So in other words, there's really no actual evidence that a trade was gonna happen. Just more guessing on Morts part. We've heard so many false reports this week. Why are you so convinced that Mort is right? Since when do we believe everything the media says?

The best I can tell, he is saying there was a significantly better deal to be made. But because Belichick is either 1) impatient, 2) stupid or 3) more interested in helping Pioli than helping the Patriots, he chose to take the lesser offer.

Riiiiiiight.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just so I fully understand what you two are arguing about. Deus, you're saying that a deal WAS in the works, and BB bailed out? and this info is from a KC fan quoting MORT? So in other words, there's really no actual evidence that a trade was gonna happen. Just more guessing on Morts part. We've heard so many false reports this week. Why are you so convinced that Mort is right? Since when do we believe everything the media says?

No, that's not it. I'll post a basic timeline in a followup post.

 

[BelichickFan]

Then re-read the previous posts, because it's pretty clear. But, since people are intent on deliberately missing the painfully obvious, here's Cutler's take for you:

Video Library - cbs4denver.com

and more on the topic:

Broncos Forums - View Single Post - Cutler speaks about trade talks.

Broncos Forums - View Single Post - Cutler speaks about trade talks.

Well Mort had Shanahan about to be the Chiefs' HC too. Sorry but Mort is old news. When Shefter reports it then I will say "damn, I would have preferred the 12th pick".

 

[Deus Irae]

Well Mort had Shanahan about to be the Chiefs' HC too. Sorry but Mort is old news. When Shefter reports it then I will say "damn, I would have preferred the 12th pick".

No offense, because I'm talking in context here, but I don't care about your opinion of Mort. It doesn't change my point. Unless the stories are false, the Patriots clearly gave a discount.

 

[BradyBranch39]

Rotoworld is also quoting Mort:

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports that the Patriots turned down a package from the Bucs in a possible three-way Matt Cassel deal that included a first- and third-round pick.
In this scenario, the Patriots would have received the picks, Denver would get Matt Cassel, and Tampa would get Jay Cutler. But there has to be more to the story. Why would the Patriots turn down better picks? One admittedly speculative guess is that the deal with the Chiefs was already verbally agreed to at this point, and the Patriots couldn't back out. Mike Vrabel, after all, was in Kansas City Friday. Mar. 1 - 1:40 am et