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The time has come...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 7, 2007.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    ...to bring this "spygate" issue to a deffinitive END.

    When I first heard about Shula's whine about the Pat's potential undefeated season needing an asterisk, my first reaction to pass it off as just a "grumpy old man" (sorta like myself) trying to protect the uniqueness of a record he has held so long. However as the news spread to the national media and was being reported on, I changed my mind.

    On PTI, both Wilbon and Kornheiser both gave it a "double WOW". Then Kornheiser, who is sort of the "everyman" kind of columnist, stated that he had now changed his mind about the importance of "spygate" as an issue, and because it was coming from such an eminent sourse as Don Shula, it carried much more weight. So if HE is feeling that way, I believe a lot of "middle america" is feeling the SAME way.

    Well that did it for me. Rather than whithering on the vine like it should have this story keep on getting legs, and its time for it to STOP. And the only way it will stop is if the real truth comes out. Tom Curran (in a great column, btw) called the infraction tantamount to aggrevated jaywalking, or in other words being caught for a procedural infraction. (which is what it was).

    Now it is time for the truth to come out. Tom Brady has stated on several occassion when asked about comments by the "haters", that "in this lockerroom WE KNOW THE TRUTH, and that's enough for us" (Paraphrase).

    Well Tom the time has come to share the "truth" with the rest of us. It is time to let the haters know what you know, that makes you so comfortable with this situation.

    Roger Goodell has seemed to have proven that he could teach George Bush a few things about F*cking up a good thing with his handling of this whole thing. His overreacting with the Pats punishment, and his allowing rank speculation and inuendo to go unanswered has not only hurt the Patriots, but its hurt the entire league (as Curran so aptly points out).

    I think its becoming clearer every day that Goodel must have some unreported beef with the Pats that goes back a long way. He has left them twisting in the wind, despite his initial pronouncement that none of what the Pats recorded led to the Pats gaining an unfair advantage in a game.

    Goodell needs to come out with a definitive statement that lets people know what the Pats taped, how the tapes were used by the Pats, and why if the tapes DIDN'T give the Pats a competitive edge, why the punishment was so heavy handed, and why he destroyed them. (though I think I know why he did). If he doesn't the spygate will be followed by Audiogate, capgate, druggate, etc....all of which just hurts the credibility of the league in general.

    BTW- in the "oh boy the irony of it all" column. I couln't believe hearing well known Pats hater Mark Schleith (sp) on Mike and Mike telling people that one of the reasons Denver used the chop blocking technique was inorder to tire out DLmen over the course of a game. The irony of it? Well here was a memeber of the Denver Broncos who violated the Cap inorder to win 2 superbowls telling the world he used an illegal technique to get an unfair advantage over the opposition....the day after he questioned the integrity of the Patriots....AGAIN... because of "spygate". That is why his picture is featured next to the definition of HYPOCRACY in the dictionary.

    FInally Wretch has put together a must read collection of articles in a post titled "Fed up with the Hypocracy". Read the acticles, desseminated the information, and keep bumping it up. And BTW the Curran article is not to be missed either
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2007
  2. Slagathor

    Slagathor Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    Let's face it. The Patriots have taken most of the drama out of the NFL season.

    I know this is going to sound extremely homerish, but facts are facts.

    Other than Indy, does it really matter who else makes the playoffs in either conference?

    The season has taken on a very much pre-determined course. The media needs to keep things interesting. The spygate thing will continue to have legs because people will keep propping it up.

    Although we rightfully want to put it to rest because it bears no significance to the Pats current perfomance, the MEDIA, not our competitors want the controversey to have legs.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2007
  3. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    This is not going to come out into the open. I'm telling you. I've already heard enough from Gooddell about his motives. he knows this is a bogus issue. What will hurt the NFL more than the whole Spygate thing is for the commissioner to admit he's a boob, and that's the only way that the truth will come out.

    Go back to the Costas interview before the San Diego game.

    Costas: "With all the high-tech gadgetry out there, binoculars with digital recording, how do you plan to legislate against people recording signals from elsewhere in the stadium?"

    Gooddell: "This wasn't high-tech and it was being done in the open on the sidelines."

    The NFL fined the Patriots for doing it out in the supposed open. That's it. This is not about cheating. It's about appearances, and Gooddell in his petulant a-holeness decided to come down hard on the Patriots for violating his memo and for taking liberties with the "appearance of the league."

    Now, do you really expect Gooddell to go out there and say, look, I only fined them for violating my memo. The NFL can't police this sort of thing. I made a mountain out of a molehill.

    I don't.
  4. PYPER

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    Re: The time has come....

    "Spygate" is far from over. Think its annoying now, just wait until the two week period before the Super Bowl.

    I don't see Belichick or the Patriots addressing it in any way while the season is in progress. It wouldn't surprise me, though, if they did something after the season is over.

    I would like them to put together a video segment that shows how they used the footage. I believe they used it to cross reference with the game tape to document, catalog, and file the reactionary adjustments that opposing defensive coaches make when the Patriots show them certain looks or formations on offense.

    Ex: What adjustments does the defense do when the offense shifts from a pro set to an empty backfield.
  5. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    Not the kind of guy to say 'I told you so,' but. . .

    I agree, and said much the same as the story lingered after the initial report. The Patriots have lost control of the message to the media and, as a result, have allowed their brand to be devalued. Just very poor public relations work in an organization that has one of the best business and marketing operations in the league. Surprising.
  6. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    EXACTLY, Pyper. Now how do you get that message to the media who would MUCH rather hype the "good vs evil" agenda?
  7. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

  8. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    The irony of ironies is that Gregg Easterbrook had a hint of foresight with his over-the-top shenanigans.
  9. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    I disagree with the premise of this thread, that Shula speaking out is some sort of turning point. Regardless of what Kornheiser said (he's a clown) my sense is that it's a tipping point the other way. I posted on another thread that Michael Kay, the yankees broadcaster/new york radio homer, blasted Shula yesterday for this, saying basically he sounds like a bitter old man trying to hold onto his glory. People get sick of the same story, and it will turn, outside of anyone who's set on hating the Pats.

    As for the Pats managing the message, this bs was going to run its course regardless of what the Pats did. Anything they said/say would just be oxygen for the fire.
  10. OtisCampbell

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    Re: The time has come....

    Agreed, this was no turning point. 80% of the responses blasted Shula.

    Thinking that anything Tony Kornheiser says is meaningful is off the mark. He is a dipsh*t.
  11. Joker

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    Re: The time has come....

    Tony Kornholio needs someone to step up and douse that dead rat on his head with lighter fluid....what a dyam freak
  12. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    Calling it jaywalking is a good metaphor. I called it a minor misdemeanor. It was all about the location of the camera and nothing more. How insignificant can that be?

    The media is hands off on the Jets and Colts little screwups this year. No traction there because one team is pathetic and the other team is led by a Saint and is trying to defeat all evil on the planet.
  13. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    Michael Kay? A poor gauge. As ANY Jets fan, he hates Don Shula with a seething white hot passion, and wishes that his next golf swing would cause his brittle bones to snap like seasoned kindling, and that he would crumple up into a a well-stacked pile for a winter of burning.
  14. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    I think Jets fans hate the Pats more than the Dolphins by now. Point is, he and his partner are pretty typical, follow-the-crowd types, and their instinctive reaction to Shula was that he sounded like a nut.
  15. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    It shouldn't even be called "spygate" it should be called "video-out-in-the-open-gate" lol Don Shula a former HC is a credible source, but Shanahan a current HC isn't? :rolleyes:
  16. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    Younger Jets fans, maybe. For grizzled older bastards such as I - Don Shula deserves a nice long soak in a pool of piranha and electric eels.
  17. OtisCampbell

    OtisCampbell Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    I did take a run through Jets Insider yesterday, and I was really surprised at the venom that was being spewed towards Shula and anything Dolphin, even when it involved the Pats.
  18. TruthSeeker

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    Re: The time has come....

    Ken, it's not happening. No matter what you or anyone else wants, the Patriots don't go around talking (or thinking) about anything that changes their focus from winning the next football game.

    I was pretty disappointed about the PTI reaction. What substance or facts did Don Shula have to offer? Absolutely nothing! He had an opinion - and didn't even back it up with any facts or reasoning (such as exactly how this videotaping gave the Patriots a significant edge). For thinking people who value credible opinions, this isn't much of an issue. For those who weigh opinions as important or even more important than facts and carefully considered reasoning, this is indeed an important pronouncement.

    Fortunately, it appears that America is speaking and that they don't agree with the PTI take. PTI - which I love and watch most every day - is all about opinions and very little about facts. The story is more about what they think than what happened. That's fine, that's what their show is about. Perhaps they overvalue themselves or what they're doing because of the weight that they are giving Don Shula's opinion.
  19. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    Re: The time has come....

    I agree. However, I think that once this season is over, a lot more of the real truth is going to start to come out. People will start talking to the media about what REALLY happens in all NFL stadiums every Sunday.

    It's interesting that the media has dubbed the incident "spygate", "cameragate" or various other references to the Watergate Scandal. Because I think that it is the NFL that is engaged in a coverup here, to try to sell their squeaky clean image. After all, isn't that why Goodell was hired and given the mission of rooting out the Pacmans and other undesirables who would taint that image?

    Anyone who doesn't think that is Goodell's charter hasn't been paying attention. So when the league's preeminent franchise got caught crossing a line (even if it was just a cross-walk line) he came down hard on them. But neither the NFL owners nor Goodell want the public to know the real extent to which this kind of thing goes on.

    But, like Watergate, which didn't really start to unravel until almost a year after the breakin took place, eventually this coverup will unravel too. A Deep Throat type will come forward and start whispering to reporters. A Woodard-Bernstein equivalent will continue to write up the various inconsistencies and irregularities in the official story and will continue to investigate as the details slowly emerge.

    What the Patriots did will not only come to be seen as business as usual, but rather tame by comparison. In the final analysis, the real bad guys will turn out to be the league itself, and the Patriots will be seen as just another team playing by the system that the league set up, and the talk of asterisks and tainted Super Bowls will be seen in context.

    At least, that's what I hope will happen! :) Don't get me wrong, I still feel that BB hurt the fans by exposing the team's reputation to this kind of accusations they are now receiving, but I think that when seen in the future with the greater perspective of time and history and additional information that the true nature of this incident as "aggravated jaywalking" will be universally accepted.
  20. BrianPat

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    Re: The time has come....

    It's over !! Seriously, Shula is wacked. How can this new record be tainted by something that was done in the past ?? No one agrees with him, but that won't stop the networks from trying to hype it to draw attention to their shows, but they'll look like fools
  21. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The time has come....

    Ken I agree with you regarding Goodell. Although I wish you would keep your political opinions to yourself on the football forum. There is a place for that and it's not here.

    Goodell screwed this up from the beginning. He over reached. He went public with his "outrage" and his harsh punishment. His office leaked the tape which backfired when people saw what was being taped. He was way too harsh with his punishment which I doubt would have been the same for the AZ Cards.

    He then further aggrevated the situation by demanding all tapes, notes ect. for past years. Then he had the material destroyed (we think) with out a definitive statement as to if they gave the Patriots an unfair competitive advantage.

    He has left the door open for jealous Patriots haters to continue their assult. And mindless old men like Shula who have a selfish special interest to demean the Patriots.

    Goodell is a blemish on the NFL and should not be Commissioner.
  22. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    We have to try not to be so rational.

    People are trying to take this on as though anyone really cares. They don't.

    This is all about besmirching the Patriots' successs. No amount of explanation and reasoning is going to put an end to that.

    I've experienced this as a UConn basketball and football fan. Opposing fans wanted to kill the bball team for players stealing laptops. And they brought it up constantly, no matter the fact that players were suspended and punished. Now Uconn football is denigrated because of perceived bad calls against the opposition which (as I see it) did not influence the outcome of the game. Teams will bring this stuff constantly no matter if you reason with them to show them how wrong they are. They are just trying to take the Patriots down a peg.
  23. PatsFan00042

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    Re: The time has come....

    Incorrect. There shouldn't be a camera on the sidelines that isn't covered on the sides and top. There's no issue with filming defensive signals, strictly with camera location. Get your facts right. This is exactly the problem with the media and pundits spewing their crap all over the place...the blatent abscence of fact.
  24. Joker

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    Re: The time has come....

    "NFL rules prohibit video recording devices in the coaches' both, on the field or in a locker room during the course of any game. These rules also state that video for coaching reasons must emanate from places enclosed on all sides with an overhead roof."

    Hi moron...please kill yourself
  25. patpatriot

    patpatriot Banned

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    Re: The time has come....

    In the light of the continued witch hunt caused by Goodell's blantent mishandling of the incident; turning a minor rules violation into a crime on the level of a team point shaving, I have altered my position that the way to make the Patriots whole is by returning their #1 pick.

    I now believe that the situation justifies him giving the Pats *2* more 1st round picks.
  26. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The time has come....

    the booth next to the coaches booth...please try to keep up...I know it's hard for you Indy 2nd grade dropouts.

    stick around...next week we'll ask you to spell a three letter word for a common house pet...we'll even spot you the C and T.
  27. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    Please don't kill yourself, but listen to reason. There is NO WAY that the information on those tapes could POSSIBLY be used to decipher the signal and get them to the QB on the day of the game. How could they. Think about it. Every team in the league has 2-3 coaches signalling the plays, with only one being live. On the day in question, the Jets (by their own admission) had 3 coaches signalling in the defensive calls. How long do you think it would take to figure out who is the "live" coach...THEN figure out what the signals mean....THEN get that information to the QB within the 20 seconds the QB/OC mike is on....and get their own play in.

    The FACT that Pats haters, like yourself, don't want to admit is that these films are used in the off season to help BB learn the tendencies of various DC's. You don't want to admit that all the information that the Pats got from their filming could be obtained LEGALLY by other means (only less efficienctly)

    This was a simple violation of a procedural rule, not the wholesale vile CHEATING, that the media puts out. There WAS NO unfair advantage gotten, And as far as being "caught" that's the real joke, since the cameraman was in full Pats gear, with Pats documentation, in full view of a team that knew the Pats were doing this.

    I know this is an inconvient truth for you, and I doubt very much you will take it to heart, because if you do, you WOULD have come to deal with the REAL reasons the Pats have been so successful for so long, and your team (whomever they may be).....are not.

    So you can continue with your fantasy that the Pats are cheaters. They are the ONLY team that tries to steal signals (which is not illegal). They are the only team that pumps in noise to their stadium. They get all the official's calls (the Colt game is a case in point :rolleyes: ) And if they don't like how things are going, they get the rules changed to fit their team. If that makes your dispair easier to deal with, so be it.
  28. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The time has come....

    YOU stated that NO VIDEO recording is allowed whatsoever...I just showed you it is...please...get back to 2nd grade and hit the books..start with Jack and Jill you freaking moron
  29. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    It's pretty obvious that the Media is doing this on purpose.
    I mean OBVIOUSLY it's not that big a deal, it's been done many times before, etc. etc.

    The Media wants one thing - ratings, and advertising dollars that come from it. They chase good rating through controversy. I'm sure they have production meetings and discuss how they will diss on the Pats regardless because they are the kings and everyone is watching them, so it creates great interest. When you throw in the fact that alot of these guys are ex-jocks that played for teams that compete (and currently get demorilized) with the pats and you have the added element of competitive jealousy. Look around - football fans HATE their competition. It's part of the draw.

    The Pats on the kings, clearly superior, breaking many records, winning at unpresecedended amounts. This makes others feel inferior, which they don't like - hence denial and disgust. (Hate) Remember Kordell Stewart saying 'sometimes the best team doesn't win'. Denial. We were all appalled by his lack of class. Then TJ Houshmanzadeh saying the bengals were still better, after getting spanked - denial. By now we were getting used to it.
    You don't think all this winning by us doesn't build up resentment? of course it does. Success breeds contempt - come with the territory. It's lonely at the top. 'People love it when you lose - they love dirty laundry'.
    what we need to do is just see it for what it is - jealousy and media created controversy. It will be the story until - the next story!
    lean back, keep enjoying the wins, laugh at the pettiness and jealousy and don't worry about it. they'll be no asteriks and people actually know it wasn't really a big deal and know what we're doing is incredible. they just can't handle giving us our due anymore right now. it makes them feel totally overmatched. which they are. which is humiliating. it's a defense mechanism.
    don't worry about it. this too will pass.
  30. Mayday Malone

    Mayday Malone Rookie

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    Re: The time has come....

    The best thing I heard today, and I was looking forward to hearing his opinion, because he's a Colt worshipper, and occasional Pats hater, is how Pete Prisco responded. I was pleasantly surprised that he tore Shula a new one on his radio station, telling him to STFU. Although, he does emphasis the cheating aspect, it's nice to know that he doesn't see the Pat's record as being tarnished.
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