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The Swift-boating of Mitt Romney

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jul 16, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Nation is left-leaning, and is respected by many intellectuals. It's been around a long time. In fact, it was founded by abolitionists.

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/blumenthal

    With onetime Republican presidential frontrunner Senator John McCain in meltdown, Mitt Romney, suddenly finds himself under fire from some of the Christian right's most influential activists. Romney's evangelical critics claim the former Massachusetts governor and devout Mormon was complicit in the Marriott hotel chain's sale of pay-per-view porn on its in-room television sets when he served on the corporation's board of directors from 1992 to 2001. Two Christian-right operatives involved in orchestrating the charges have enlisted as Internet organizers for former Senator Fred Thompson, who is preparing to enter the race formally. The tactics of these religious-right players, targeted below the radar against Romney, are calculated to alter decisively the outcome of the Republican primary contest.

    The assault was launched on July 5 with an opening shot in the form of a breathless press release issued through the mega-ministry Focus on the Family. In it, veteran antiporn crusader Phil Burress called Romney's failure to take action against pay-per-view hotel porn during his tenure on Marriott's board "extremely disturbing." That same day, a Focus on the Family spokesman took to the radio airwaves to ask whether Romney would "turn a blind eye" to pornography if elected President. Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, which functions as Focus's Washington lobbying arm, immediately joined the pile-on. He briefed the Associated Press on the record, explaining that Romney must "take some responsibility" for his supposed connection to Marriott's porn profiteering. The AP report on the accusation against Romney was subsequently reprinted in the pages of major outlets from the Boston Globe to the Washington Post. It only took a full six years after Romney resigned from Marriott's board for the Christian right's leading lights to profess their outrage--and only hours for the press to echo it.

    This carefully sequenced attack on Romney over hotel porn is just the opening volley in what appears to be a concerted effort to doom his candidacy. Gary Glenn, president of the American Family Association's Michigan chapter, told me, "This is just part of a broader pattern of concern over Mitt Romney's record of aggressively promoting abortion on demand, the homosexual agenda and birth control. We are judging Romney by his record." Glenn is a leading Christian-right operative in the home state of Romney's late father, former Republican Governor George Romney, one of Romney's bases within the Republican Party. Glenn is also a member of the DC Group, a conference of fifteen antiporn activists that meets four times a year to plot political strategy. The DC Group devised its plan to undermine Romney at its most recent gathering, Glenn revealed to me.
     
  2. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not one thing the Swift Boat Veterans claimed against Kerry has been proved to be untrue. They were never sued for libel or slander. IMO the Swift Boaters came together one last time to do an honorable service for their country and expose a profound liar. The continual use of the term "Swift Boater" to suggest a false political attack is unjustified. It should be called a "Rather" or a "Mapes". As for the substance of the article, I agree that Romney is suffering volleys from some politically active evangelical groups due mainly to his Mormon faith and inconsistent stand on abortion. I like Romney, believe he has led a moral life, and would make a good President. These attacks against Romney are unfortunate, because if nominated I believe he will win the Presidency in a landslide.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2007
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, many of things they said were untrue. Factcheck, a site often linked to by conservatives as well as liberals, has this:

    http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html
     
  4. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The phoney swift-boaters said Kerry shot an unarmed, 14 yr old wearing nothing but a miniskirt. The actual swift-boaters, ie the members of Kerry's crew who were present at the time, said he shot an adult VC soldier who was dressed in the normal fashion and armed with a rocket launcher.

    On topic:I really can't think of anything less important to me than any candidate's stance on the Marriot making pay per view pornos available.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2007
  5. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    Actually, I have read that article and find it to be tendentious and stand by my original statement. Nothing they said has been proved to be untrue. A great many veterans from the same unit came together against Kerry. Only 2 supported him. (1) One officer, Rood, who was not on his boat, and did not think the man Kerry chased and shot [in the back according to the report of some Swifties] was wounded or a teenager, but allowed for the fact that others did, by saying "Recollections of those who go through that frequently differ."

    The other fellow to speak on Kerry's behalf was Rassman, the man whom Kerry "rescued" from the water. Rassman had made a career of appearing at Kerry events and it was to his advantage and self-interest to contradict his fellow swifties.

    As far as "citations" go, I have written up many myself, and most of the language is formulaic generic *********. So to use those citations as "historical evidence" above the recollections of multiple eye witnesses is laughable. It's exactly the kind of public ignorance re: military documentation that Kerry was counting on to cover his @$$ later on.

    Some of our heroes turn out to be ghosts. Kerry was one of them. The Swifties who exposed him risked everything, did not break ranks under the most intense scrutiny and emerged victorious. IMO our citizens, Dems and Repubs, owe a debt to them twice over- or at least those citizens who have more than a farcical relationship to the truth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2007
  6. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    I see. The phony swift boaters are the ones opposed to Kerry. The real ones are the ones who support him. Typical. Keep making excuses for this congenital liar. Say it enough, and idiots will believe you. But then again, idiots are the voters your party most relies upon, especially the "useful" ones.
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    PonyExpress, you're factually misinformed, and might want to look here at the well documented Wikipedia article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Boat_Veterans#Truth_of_allegations

    Can you provide a purportedly objective source to support what you're saying? I do not think so.

    At any rate, your advocacy for the Swift Boat Veterans certainly tells me that your faith in Romney's morality has little to do with morality, and much to do with politics.
     
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gore/Kerry:
    The people knew what Jerks they were, thats why you have GW Bush as your President.
    :bricks:
    Bill Cosby Makes Sense So They Trash Him
     
  9. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    "Factcheck" and "Wikipedia" are not reliable source materials, and should not be presented as such. If one reads the book about Kerry written by the Swift Boat vets, one will find source materials there. It is painful to be betrayed by a candidate; to believe passionately in the causes he represents, only to discover the man is a fraud. I understand that. But we shouldn't perform magic tricks to make us feel better, altering reality to soothe our wounds. As adults we face the facts that politicians are often imperfect, vain, pathologically ambitious congenital liars. Kerry was one such man, whose ambition for the Presidency overwhelmed his moral compass. This flaw was revealed at the worst time for his party, and all his causes were betrayed by the ghosts of his past. However, just because Kerry was lousy doesn't demean the cuases he represented, however much i disagree with them.
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Neither one supports what you are saying, therefore they are poor, and the only source you provide to show the Swift Vets are telling the truth is the Swift Boat Vets themselves? LOL. Why not provide the RNC and Karl Rove as sources?

    You understand that because you perhaps supported Bush, whose failures have forced righties to distance themselves from him. And now you support Romney who is conveniently changing his stand on abortion, gay rights, and stem cell research. Perhaps you understand betrayal because you find that attractive in a conservative candidate?

    Other candidates have less ambition and speak the truth? Please. All the candidates are intensely ambitious people. You don't run for president without that, and it's almost funny that you, as a supporter of Romney, would call Kerry vain.

    Kerry was a poor candidate who ran a poor campaign but a decent enough man with a consistent record (which is the best objective measure). Bush was a good candidate, but a lousy human being who lacks a moral compass or the intelligence to be president, let alone CiC. Bush's rabid right-wing supporters have done great harm to our nation and the thousands of families who have lost loved ones for no good reason.
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  12. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I've said this before, I think the Swift Boaters made a big mistake going after Kerry's war record. He put himself in harms way. Maybe the medals he got were generous and would not have been given to him if he was in an Army or Marine unit.

    However, what sickend me about Kerry is that when he came back he put himself upfront on the anti-war movement. He testified in congress about things he did not experience and had no personal knowledge about. By doing that he smeared everyone who served in Vietnam. He was still a reserve officer at the time and if some vet told him about rapes, killings, and other alledged atrocities he had the obligation to report it to the military. We would have seen that 90% of those stories were pure BS.

    That is why Kerry is a scumbag. He has no idea nor does he care about the harm he caused Vietnam veterans and now Iraq veterans with his rethoric.

    A total POS. This coming from a Vietnam veteran.
     
  13. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    The one thing that I will add to this thread is Factcheck is a very reliable source. They are non-partisan and cut through a lot of crap that politicans love to hide behind.

    That is all.
     
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Really?

    Well Kerry testified before congress that he and other soldiers ROUTINELY committed atrocities and war crimes. It has been presumed he was referring to shooting the unarmed kid who discharged the RPG at his boat.
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While some of the stories have been shown to have been false (thank god), some were certainly true. Kerry merely testified as to what others had said at the independent testimony organized by anti-war groups.

    At any rate, you have to consider that for students and young people, who led the fight against the war, it was not an even fight. Compared with the pro-war crowd, the anti-war crowd had far fewer resources in terms of economic power, media access, or even political connections. The pro-war crowd was entrenched and even the Democrats were slow to turn against the war (that's why Humphrey lost to Nixon).

    Given the entrenched power it was up against, the anti-war crowd fought them with civil disobedience and some tabloid-worthy stories. The fact is, as is the case today, peaceful moderate protests never get any coverage. Controversial protests do get coverage. Had the anti-war crowd opposed the war in a more balanced way, there's no way that the war would have ended when it did.

    My memory of the war -- and I was 15 when it ended -- was that when the troops came home, the left rejected them and the right ignored them. It was a disgraceful display, especially by the right, their erstwhile allies. They had to wait until the Carter administration to secure many needed health care benefits. A few years later, Reagan would cut mental health services, and thus we see many homeless Vietnam vets today.

    Kerry was the only realistic shot of a true Vietnam veteran ever serving as President, and he would have been far better for the Vietnam veterans than someone who did not experience the war. The right wing Vietnam veterans, in my opinion, cut off their nose to spite their face.
     
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So Patters was Kerry a war criminal or a perjurer based on his testimony at the Winter soldier hearings?



    Revisionism here Patters the whole MSM was anti war by 68. When Cronkite came out against the War it made offical what had been reality for awhile. The Anti War movement got many millions of free (and mostly unquestioning) publicity from the media. Also the anti war movement got lot of funding from the Soviet Union as has been revealed by KGB papers which were declassified after the fall of Communism in Russia.



    IOW the lies told by the left were justified.


    I am a vet this of a lot of self serving BS. The left despising vets is correct though.


    Kerry was hated by most people who served in the military at that time for his lies and slander against us in his anti war activities.
     
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Neither. You're basing your information on pathetic swift boat weirdos who are still fighting the war.

    As I said, the anti-war people got publicity because they were controversial. They didn't get much funding from the Soviets, who were idiots. When I was a student in NY, there was a statewide student organization that was run by Communists, and they were complete idiots. After one year in office, me and a couple friends ran against them and won. They were an embarrassment and we had to mend a lot of bridges (which we did). Since Stalin, the Communists were too weird ever to be anything more than fringe group in this country.
     
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry Patters you need to review his testimony at the Winter Soldier hearings. Since you were 13 or 14 you may not remember I was in the AF and remember his despicable lies told about us.


    Want to quantify 'much funding' from the Soviets. This was lied about by the left who denied any connection with the Communist at the time. The left may not want to be publicly associated with the Stalinist, but they themselves are still communist, see their love of Castro for example.

    D Horowitz who grew up in a communist documents the growth of the 'new left' quite well. Of course he was much higher in the food chain of the anti war movement than you were.
     
  19. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    85% - 90% of the anti-war movement was just self serving. When the draft ended, so did any large protest.

    Cronkite was 100% wrong when he made his annoucement. We had inflicted terrible casualties on the VC and NVA during the TET offensive. There was NO popular uprising againts the Americans as Ho had predicted.

    The "most trusted man in America" was totally wrong when he made that comment!

    It does sound as if you are in the "ends justifies the means" camp when it comes to Kerry's behavior.
     
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have reviewed his testimony (when we last discussed this), and I accept that he was recounting what others had told him.

    I'm sure the Soviets fed some groups some money, but there were dozens of fringe groups, and that's who the Soviets supported. My family was involved with a major pacifist organization (that's still around), and others participated in normal liberal Democratic circles. I don't think the Soviets played any role for the average anti-war person.
     

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