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The "Sweet Spot" of the 2015 Draft and Value Picks


mayoclinic

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It's still 10 weeks until the 2015 draft, and plenty of time for prospects to rise and fall on draft boards, so I take all rankings with a healthy grain of salt. But right now it looks like there are only about 15-20 clear 1st round talents in this draft, and some of them are not necessarily immediate contributors (TJ Clemmings is raw, Todd Gurley is coming off an ACL, etc.). I know that many people think a 1st round pick at #32 should be a "plug and play" player who can come in and immediately start, but I think that is erroneous. I'm happy to get a superior long term talent who may take some time to develop, as was the case last year with Dominique Easley, who I expect to be a monster in 2015.

The Pats are likely to get a 3rd round comp pick for Aqib Talib, which would likely give them 3 picks in the 96-100 range. They could conceivably have up to 5 picks clustered around that area if they move back from 64 and/or move up from their 4th round pick. They will have a lot of versatility to move around in that area, and the cost to do so is fairly trivial compared to the cost of trading up in the first 2 rounds. I think this area is likely to be the "sweet spot" for the Pats to find values.

Right now here's a short list of some of the guys who I think could be terrific values in this range:

1. Marcus Hardison, DT/DE, Arizona St. I think Manx (who has been way ahead on Hardison) nailed this one. Hardison is 6' 3 1/8" 311# and plays both inside and out for Arizona St. He has terrific edge speed for a guy his size - I actually think he's faster coming around the edge than Owamagbe Odighizuwa, who is 40# lighter. I think he's more explosive than Arik Amsted, who Mel Kiper has going #8 in his most recent mock. He was a QB in high school, and is still learning the DL position - this was a breakout season for him - so he is still under the radar. He could easily blow up the Combine and rise, but right now he's still a stealth draft stock, and the 96-100 range seems reasonable. I think he could be an immediate rotational player at both DE and DT, and the combination of Easley and Hardison inside would be a tremendous pressure package.

2. Ellis McCarthy, DT/DE, UCLA. 6'5" 325#. I think Ochmed nailed this one. He's been the biggest McCarthy champion on this board, since the beginning of the season. McCarthy was highly hyped coming into this season and missed time with injuries. His draft stock took a huge hit, but he came back strong at the end of the year. He's a work in progress, and (as Ochmed notes), is likely to need a year of development. But his upside is enormous. He has uncanny movement skills for a guy that size, has played both outside and in for UCLA, and could develop into an impact interior lineman down the road. I like him much more than Carl Davis. A lot would depend on how McCarthy interviews, if he's viewed as having the necessary commitment and work ethic, and how much his injuries factored into his inconsistency. Assuming the answer to those questions is position, I think he's worth the risk if he's available in the late 3rd/4th round.

3. Max Valles, DE/OLB, Virginia. 6'5" 240#. Valles is a former WR, TE and safety. As with Harrison and McCarthy, there's a common theme here - Valles has rare movement skills for his position. If you're looking to build a "Seattle" DL (especially the 2013 version) with lots of "athletes" who can rotate and wreck havoc from different spots, Hardison/McCarthy/Valles would be a great way to go, at very reasonable cost. Valles needs to bulk up and get stronger, especially if he stays on the line, but he reminds me more of Jamie Collins than anyone in this draft. Right now he's way under the radar.

4. Ali Marpet, OL, Hobart. 6' 3 6/8" 307#. A small school prospect who blossomed at the Senior Bowl, Hobart played LT for 3 years and was a 2 time team captain, but projects best to interior lineman at the next level. I rate him about equal to AJ Cann in terms of his ability to be a starting LG. Dane Brugler notes:

After studying four game tapes and Senior Bowl practice tape, my scouting report on #Hobart OL Ali Marpet is done. Bargain bin Zach Martin.

https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/560974164149149698

Any of these guys could easily blow away the Combine and be late risers going higher than 96. I give all 4 top-75 grades. There are likely to be others. DeAndre Smelter will likely be available later due to his ACL tear, but he's certainly at the top of my "bargain value" list. I'd take Tre McBride over Devin Smith any day. Jeremiah Poutasi is probably on my list if he's available at that range, and possibly Donovan Smith. Kwon Alexander, Josh Shaw and Ladarius Gunter are guys that I have to study more, but who could conceivably be strong values.
 
I'm kind of wondering how far Cedric Ogbuehi will drop. There are some pretty good guard candidates who won't go in the first; Cann, Poutasi, Ogbuehi(T/G), Tomlinson and Donovan Smith(LT). I think all 5 can start as rookies. Ogbuehi injury concern only.

Allows you to get Gurley at 32 if he drops. Or, get a pass-rusher in the first and Hardison with supplemental.
 
I'm kind of wondering how far Cedric Ogbuehi will drop. There are some pretty good guard candidates who won't go in the first; Cann, Poutasi, Ogbuehi(T/G), Tomlinson and Donovan Smith(LT). I think all 5 can start as rookies. Ogbuehi injury concern only.

Allows you to get Gurley at 32 if he drops. Or, get a pass-rusher in the first and Hardison with supplemental.

Ogbuehi is definitely someone to keep an eye on as a day 2 option (including TB's 4th rounder), along with AJ Cann, Jake Fisher, Jeremiah Poutasi, Donovan Smith and Ali Marpet. Get 1-2 of those guys and I'm very happy with the overall upgrade to the OL. Similarly, I'm very happy with some day 2 combination of Danielle Hunter, Owamagbe Odighizuwa and Max Valles at EDGE and Jordan Phillip, Ellis McCarthy and Marcus Hardison at DT.

Last year I had a clear focus on getting a disruptive interior presence, and targeted either Aaron Donald with a trade up (very unlikely at best) or Dominique Easley. I was thrilled when the Pats took Easley. This year is much more open, IMO, and won't be clear until after FA is settled, and probably not until the draft itself. The best option at 32 could be an OL like Cam Erving, a DT like Eddie Goldman or Malcolm Brown, a DE like Bud Dupree, a player at a different position like Todd Gurley, or a trade back or even out. Tweaking the draft board will be very important as the draft draws closer.
 
It's still 10 weeks until the 2015 draft, and plenty of time for prospects to rise and fall on draft boards, so I take all rankings with a healthy grain of salt. But right now it looks like there are only about 15-20 clear 1st round talents in this draft, and some of them are not necessarily immediate contributors (TJ Clemmings is raw, Todd Gurley is coming off an ACL, etc.). I know that many people think a 1st round pick at #32 should be a "plug and play" player who can come in and immediately start, but I think that is erroneous. I'm happy to get a superior long term talent who may take some time to develop, as was the case last year with Dominique Easley, who I expect to be a monster in 2015.

The Pats are likely to get a 3rd round comp pick for Aqib Talib, which would likely give them 3 picks in the 96-100 range. They could conceivably have up to 5 picks clustered around that area if they move back from 64 and/or move up from their 4th round pick. They will have a lot of versatility to move around in that area, and the cost to do so is fairly trivial compared to the cost of trading up in the first 2 rounds. I think this area is likely to be the "sweet spot" for the Pats to find values.

Right now here's a short list of some of the guys who I think could be terrific values in this range:

1. Marcus Hardison, DT/DE, Arizona St. I think Manx (who has been way ahead on Hardison) nailed this one. Hardison is 6' 3 1/8" 311# and plays both inside and out for Arizona St. He has terrific edge speed for a guy his size - I actually think he's faster coming around the edge than Owamagbe Odighizuwa, who is 40# lighter. I think he's more explosive than Arik Amsted, who Mel Kiper has going #8 in his most recent mock. He was a QB in high school, and is still learning the DL position - this was a breakout season for him - so he is still under the radar. He could easily blow up the Combine and rise, but right now he's still a stealth draft stock, and the 96-100 range seems reasonable. I think he could be an immediate rotational player at both DE and DT, and the combination of Easley and Hardison inside would be a tremendous pressure package.

2. Ellis McCarthy, DT/DE, UCLA. 6'5" 325#. I think Ochmed nailed this one. He's been the biggest McCarthy champion on this board, since the beginning of the season. McCarthy was highly hyped coming into this season and missed time with injuries. His draft stock took a huge hit, but he came back strong at the end of the year. He's a work in progress, and (as Ochmed notes), is likely to need a year of development. But his upside is enormous. He has uncanny movement skills for a guy that size, has played both outside and in for UCLA, and could develop into an impact interior lineman down the road. I like him much more than Carl Davis. A lot would depend on how McCarthy interviews, if he's viewed as having the necessary commitment and work ethic, and how much his injuries factored into his inconsistency. Assuming the answer to those questions is position, I think he's worth the risk if he's available in the late 3rd/4th round.

3. Max Valles, DE/OLB, Virginia. 6'5" 240#. Valles is a former WR, TE and safety. As with Harrison and McCarthy, there's a common theme here - Valles has rare movement skills for his position. If you're looking to build a "Seattle" DL (especially the 2013 version) with lots of "athletes" who can rotate and wreck havoc from different spots, Hardison/McCarthy/Valles would be a great way to go, at very reasonable cost. Valles needs to bulk up and get stronger, especially if he stays on the line, but he reminds me more of Jamie Collins than anyone in this draft. Right now he's way under the radar.

4. Ali Marpet, OL, Hobart. 6' 3 6/8" 307#. A small school prospect who blossomed at the Senior Bowl, Hobart played LT for 3 years and was a 2 time team captain, but projects best to interior lineman at the next level. I rate him about equal to AJ Cann in terms of his ability to be a starting LG. Dane Brugler notes:



https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/560974164149149698

Any of these guys could easily blow away the Combine and be late risers going higher than 96. I give all 4 top-75 grades. There are likely to be others. DeAndre Smelter will likely be available later due to his ACL tear, but he's certainly at the top of my "bargain value" list. I'd take Tre McBride over Devin Smith any day. Jeremiah Poutasi is probably on my list if he's available at that range, and possibly Donovan Smith. Kwon Alexander, Josh Shaw and Ladarius Gunter are guys that I have to study more, but who could conceivably be strong values.
You know mayo it seems almost all of these guys you, grid, manx, ochmed etc. find DO blow up at the combine and usually become out of reach without moving up quite a bit. Every year its a bummer watching it happen.
 
In terms of a "sweet position", a first round OL still looks good. The following are all potential top 40 picks: Scherff, Peat, Clemmings, Collins,Flowers, Erving and Cann and it's looking like DJ Humphries will be joining them (all the evals I'm seeing are calling him a stud).
 
Good info there Mayo.

I am getting kind of a different feel than you are though at least up to this point. I like our prospects better of getting a good 3rd round OL man than a 3rd round DT. I just feel OL particularly at Guard is deeper than DT which I think really starts to try up around the end of the second if the draft falls like I think it will.

I only mention this cause you listed 3 DTs and 1 OL. Are you now in the camp of not taking a DT in round 1 assuming there is one worth taking cause you believe in the value later in the draft?
 
Good info there Mayo.

I am getting kind of a different feel than you are though at least up to this point. I like our prospects better of getting a good 3rd round OL man than a 3rd round DT. I just feel OL particularly at Guard is deeper than DT which I think really starts to try up around the end of the second if the draft falls like I think it will.

I only mention this cause you listed 3 DTs and 1 OL. Are you now in the camp of not taking a DT in round 1 assuming there is one worth taking cause you believe in the value later in the draft?

No, I'm not implying that. I think OL is very deep. I mentioned Donovan Smith and Jeremiah Poutasi as other options, though I didn't expand on them. I've talked about Poutasi in detail elsewhere. Smith has some work ethic/character questions, but a lot of upside. There are a bunch of other guys who I think would be excellent day 3 values - Shaq Mason, Robert Myles, Jarvis Harrison, and others. Overall, I think OL is roughly as deep as DL (DE/OLB and DT combined).

I am not of any "camp" regarding taking DL or OL. I would prioritize adding talent to the lines, but not necessarily at any given pick. There aren't any absolutes, but probably my strongest criteria is that the player be worth a pick at a given level on the Pats' board (or my board, when I am mocking). I wouldn't "reach" if at all possible.
 
No, I'm not implying that. I think OL is very deep. I mentioned Donovan Smith and Jeremiah Poutasi as other options, though I didn't expand on them. I've talked about Poutasi in detail elsewhere. Smith has some work ethic/character questions, but a lot of upside. There are a bunch of other guys who I think would be excellent day 3 values - Shaq Mason, Robert Myles, Jarvis Harrison, and others. Overall, I think OL is roughly as deep as DL (DE/OLB and DT combined).

I am not of any "camp" regarding taking DL or OL. I would prioritize adding talent to the lines, but not necessarily at any given pick. There aren't any absolutes, but probably my strongest criteria is that the player be worth a pick at a given level on the Pats' board (or my board, when I am mocking). I wouldn't "reach" if at all possible.

Agree whole heartedly with your final two paragraphs. It's about the prospect (and his value) to the Pats rather than a particular position. Getting locked into drafting a DT/OG in the first round without giving any thought to where they rank on your board is folly. If Gurley, Maxx Williams or bud Dupree are better than the best available OL or DT then you draft them providing you value them enough.
 
Agree whole heartedly with your final two paragraphs. It's about the prospect (and his value) to the Pats rather than a particular position. Getting locked into drafting a DT/OG in the first round without giving any thought to where they rank on your board is folly. If Gurley, Maxx Williams or bud Dupree are better than the best available OL or DT then you draft them providing you value them enough.

Agreed.

It's not rocket science. If there is a player on your board that you value worthy of a pick at a given level, you take him. If there is more than one then you take the highest rated guy on your board, or you trade back a bit (which you may also do if you think the player will be available later on, even though you value him worth the pick). If there isn't anyone you value worth taking, you try and trade down, even at a discount. It's about finding values more than filling positional needs at a particular level, though need always factors in to value.
 
When I look at this draft, I see the sweet spot for value in the top half of the second round, especially if you are willing to be patient and give players in this range some time to develop.

Outside the top 8 picks, the guy taken at 12 could have the same impact as the guy taken at 38. The biggest difference is the guy taken at 12 comes with a bigger price tag.

Bb is a value shopper and a system shopper. It is going to be very interesting to see how or if he moves around in this draft.
 
Good stuff my man, love it. I always find the sweet spot in just before or just after the Patriots pick... the grass is always greener. I also agree about the ability to plug and play a pick at 32, the Patriots first round success has skewed our perspective. Most draft picks should be considered for depth and fringe starts with a few becoming starters in 2-3 years.
 


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Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
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Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
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Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
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