Welcome to PatsFans.com

"The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field command

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    wait... i thought Bush was letting the commanders on the ground iron out this last-ditch surge, not another thinktank ... oops... nope... lied to again...

    [​IMG]

    Earlier this month, President Bush affirmed his commitment to his escalation plan, stating, “I’m going to remind the people in the audience today that troop levels will be decided by our commanders on the ground, not by political figures in Washington, D.C.”

    But the DC Examiner reports today that “a bunch of arm chair generals in Washington” from the American Enterprise Institute “almost single handedly convinced the White House to change its strategy” in weekend meetings last December. The AEI escalation plan reportedly “won out over plans from the Pentagon and U.S. Central Command”:

    Arm chair generals help shape surge in Iraq

    WASHINGTON (Map, News) - When it comes to the troop surge in Iraq, a bunch of arm chair generals in Washington are influencing the Bush Administration as much as the Joint Chiefs or theater commanders.

    A group of military experts at the American Enterprise Institute, concerned that the U.S. was on the verge of a calamitous failure in Iraq, almost single handedly convinced the White House to change its strategy.

    They banded together at AEI headquarters in downtown Washington early last December and hammered out the surge plan during a weekend session. It called for two major initiatives to defeat the insurgency: reinforcing the troops and restoring security to Iraqi neighborhoods. Then came trips to the White House by AEI military historian Frederick Kagan, retired Army Gen. John Keane and other surge proponents.

    More and more officials began attending the sessions. Even Vice President Dick Cheney came. "We took the results of our planning session immediately to people in the administration," said AEI analyst Thomas Donnelly, a surge planner. "It became sort of a magnet for movers and shakers in the White House." Donnelly said the AEI approach won out over plans from the Pentagon and U.S. Central Command. The two Army generals then in charge of Iraq had opposed a troop increase.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2007
  2. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,923
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    The group was made up of miltary experts. Anyway, it also states that the present strategy in Iraq was not doing anything so they realized a different stategy was needed. All we heard was "change the course" and "we never had enough boots on then ground" from everyone it seems(and rightly so). Now we change the stategy, and we see progress in some areas and now that is being attacked. I even saw a retired general on MSNBC last week discussing the surge and he said we finally got it right, though it may be too late because not enough time will be given for it to truely work. Get Bush, Hate Bush. I guess technically these guys aren't boots on the ground, but they have a hell of a lot more expertise in military matters then Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the grinning democrats(sorry to plagiarize you Harry). That was Bush's point.

    PC it may do you well to actually consider even in the slightest degree another point of view occasionally. You won't come off as such a-know-it-all.
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,335
    Likes Received:
    255
    Ratings:
    +657 / 7 / -2

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    Earlier this month....

    In December....

    Hmmm......
     
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,172
    Likes Received:
    121
    Ratings:
    +306 / 9 / -12

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    If the surge is producing results who cares whose idea it is? Sounds like people trying to take credit for a good idea. Patraeus did the same approach in The Kurdish areas that he is now using in Aabar and Baghdad.
     
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    I don't doubt that, but it's still a far cry from "I'm going to listen to the commanders on the ground." I mean, technically these guys are on the ground (which would likely be Bush's explanation if questioned), but it sounded like he meant Iraqi ground, not American ground.
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,335
    Likes Received:
    255
    Ratings:
    +657 / 7 / -2

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    It's quite simple. They came up with a surge strategy at the end of last year, and implemented it. The man in charge od said strategy, General Petraeus, is in charge once it was implemented. What's the fuss about?
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,172
    Likes Received:
    121
    Ratings:
    +306 / 9 / -12

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    The fuss is about being unhappy that something may be going well for the US in Iraq.
     
  8. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,923
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    Point taken. But by the same token Nancy Pelosi's gang of grinning "experts" are a lot farther removed from the boots on the ground than the group outlined in this piece. That again is the point Bush has always tried to make.
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,649
    Likes Received:
    222
    Ratings:
    +813 / 2 / -9

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    Bush Is Always Grinning

    Does He Know Something That Obooma & Pant Suit Hillary Don't Know

    Do You Really Think Bush Will Leave The White House With The Legacy Of Being The Worst President In The Country's History

    I Think Little George Will Have A Surprise For The World To See Before He Retires, I Think On His Last Day In Office He Will Turn To The Pelosi Gang And Grin.
     
  10. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    I think Bush is correct on the point that Congress shouldn't dictate war tactics, it doesn't make sense to run a war by comittee. But Congress has a legitimate role in determining long-term strategy (just like a board of directors determines a corporation's strategy, and the CEO develops the tactics to executes it), like whether we should be fighting a war there at all. Congress' "meddling" has been of the strategic type. Bush is saying he should control the mission, Congress is saying there should be no mission. They both speak some truth.
     
  11. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,923
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ratings:
    +189 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    I appreciate your sensible style of debate. You actually try and look at other points of views. That goes a whole lot farther than the typical "Bush lies again" rhetoric.
     
  12. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    Thanks for the compliment.
     
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    The article breaks absolutely ZERO new ground in terms of how America has *ever* managed *any* military campaign. Even in the Revolution there was no shortage of arm-chair field marshals in waiting. Wanna-be commandants.

    Not a bit of news that desk jockeys, albeit some experienced in the matter of war, would be having a say in what goes on in Iraq.

    Did Clinton dream up the "bomb the aspirin factory" scheme all by himself??



    //
     
  14. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    I don't remember any rhetoric from Clinton about "commanders on the ground" is all. Bush was obviously juxtaposing fat cats in congress to his generals in the field. Turns out it's really just fat cats either way.
     
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com


    Point is (again) Press is saying (again) that "Bush lied" because, allegedly, Bush said: "the commanders in the field will make the decisions". But Bush never said the field commanders would never hear another word from back office data miners and number crunchers -- this ALWAYS HAPPENS. In EVERY WAR, in EVERY military situation.

    My earlier point about Clinton's call for that hit on a "military target" after the attacks on the two embassies in Africa (or whatever the stimulant was), turned out to be a hit on an aspirin factory (or was it a baby formula factory? Never can remember all the great Clinton military exploits.) So, either Clinton has it in for aspirin/baby formula, or his "intelligence" sources were less than stellar.

    Every president relies on behind the lines intelligence sources; how "intelligent" they are will vary according to "mitigating factors".


    //
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2007
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,649
    Likes Received:
    222
    Ratings:
    +813 / 2 / -9

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    He bombed the Chinese Embassy too :singing: :singing:
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,649
    Likes Received:
    222
    Ratings:
    +813 / 2 / -9

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    He bombed the Chinese Embassy too :singing: :singing:
     
  18. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    ... and the expected and subsequent spin brought to you by Con man bloggers everywhere.... Hooray!!
     
  19. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com



    That's it!!?? Just tears for fears?? No, counter-spin?

    You're giving up too easily, Press. You must be at work, or doing something else that matters to you.



    //
     
  20. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Re: "The Surge," brought to you by American Enterprise Institute... not the field com

    well, i am at work... however, there's really nothing to give up to... the man lied... again... his cabal stitched together another hasty, last-ditch effort, the logistics of which are completely impossible to come to fruition, given the size of the country, the sectarian hatreds, and the embarrassing failures of our corporate reconstruction efforts... the Iraqis have lost faith in the U.S. and most want us to just go home... it's that simple...

    you're not proving he didn't lie, you're simply suggesting all presidents rely on civilian war advice... two weeks of planning, at that...
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>