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The stupid questions never asked

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Marko, May 11, 2008.

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  1. Marko

    Marko Rookie

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    1. How come they tape the second half of the game, if they are going in at half time and decoding the signals to use in the second half of the same game?

    2. What the heck is the difference if the camera is sheltered around three sides? Doesn't this just give the advantage to the home team?

    3. If it is true that all the teams steal signals, would there actually be a competitive advantage or would you just be keeping up?

    4. Isn't it more dishonest to have people hidden who are stealing signals than a camera everyone could see?

    5. Mangini says the Pats gave him permission to tape after they told him to move the first time. If this is true, would the Pats give up such a devastating advantage to their opponent? Why didn't he extend the courtesy back the following year? (This is a much more troubling than after the memo, they really said screw you we'll do it anyway!)

    6. If the rule states that no videotaping of the other coaches allowed, does it matter if its offense or defense or both?

    7. How does someone as stupid as Roger Goodell get a job like that?

    8. If Arlen Specter is really concerned about the integrity of the game wouldn't he want to know how widespread this is around the league, and what other type of things are being done(maybe even by his beloved Eagles)?
  2. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

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    1. Good point.
    2. No idea. I'm guessing it's just an attempt to limit taping locations?
    3. The media has basically equated videotaping people giving signals with a microphone eavesdropping in the coaches meeting where they go over the signals. It's patently absurd.
    4. Each signal giver has to operate under the assumption that others are attempting to decode them. Where they do that is irrelevant.
    5. The lack of even a small investigation into the Jets situation is frustrating. They automatically took Mangini's word for it, even though the statement was completely self-serving.
    6. It should not matter.
    7. Goodell seemed to have good credentials as the league's attorney. I think it's more concerning, from a Pats perspective, the people who have Goodell's ear. But Goodell did completely botch the situation.
    8. You're confusing Arlen Specter with logic.

    Good questions!
  3. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Your thread title stinks.

    Those are all EXCELLENT questions!
  4. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) Well, the dumbest answer to this I have seen on the Internet is that Ernie Adams has a photgraphic memory and can process defensive signals on the fly. You raise a very interesting question to people who want to deal with reality.
    2.) I think it the location more than the type of inclosure.
    3.) The only advantage you have from taping it is that you can go back and view it rather than going by memory.
    4.) That is a question I have been wondering. If Belichick was being so covert and underhanded, why would they have the guy filming from the sidelines? If Belichick thought it was such a big crime, he would have hidden a cameraman in the stadium somewhere.
    5.) Mangini's explanation never passed the BS test. Belichick and Pioli wouldn't give the Jets an extra pen for the coach's booth if they asked. No way would the Patriots ever signed off on giving the Jets an advantage that may help them in the future. Maybe another team, but not the Jets and Mangini. For all the talk about Goodell sweeping the Patriots' disgressions under the rug, this was covered up far quicker.
    6.) No. The league has already said the Pats were punished for taping both defensive and offensive signals. This whole offensive signals thing is just the media splitting hairs to keep the story alive until it officially ends on Tuesday. Well, there will be a few weeks of people questioning why Goodell didn't levy new penalties for new charges.
    7.) Other than how Goodell has handled this situation, I think he has done a pretty good job so far. He has made some monumentally bad mistakes when it comes to this situation though.
    8.) The fact that Specter stepped in and threatened Antitrust hearings when TO was trying to get out a trade to go to Baltimore so he could become an Eagle, yet ignored similiar situations like the Deion Branch grievance; shows that Specter abuses power to suit the Eagles fan in him. The sad thing is that he back down faster into investigating whether the CIA uses torture for interogations faster than he has backed down investigating about Spygate.

    That reminds me of Jon Stewarts' "Torture Talk" segment about Specter. No matter your politics and what you think of Stewart, you gotta love this as Patriots fans:

    http://blog.pennlive.com/pennsyltucky/2008/02/jon_stewart_on_arlen_specter_s.html
  5. tuckeverlasting

    tuckeverlasting Rookie

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    that was phenomenal.
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  7. Cartwright

    Cartwright Rookie

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    1.) Why tape a Championship Game? It's not like you will see that opponent again that season.

    2.) If taping opponents is about 1% of what you do, why 2 cameras? Why spend ALL THAT TIME editing tape, synching them up, taking notes, and cataloging?

    3.) Why engage in this activity, all the while keeping your owner in the dark, and ultimately embarrass him?

    4.) Why keep talking about 'rules' when it is completely unclear what the actual rule is? There apparently is a rulebook that the public is privy to, and a separate publication distributed to each of the 32 NFL teams.

    5.) Why do it all all? Why engage in it? If it doesn't serve some purpose, then why do it?

    The Patriots are obviously a talented team, with a talented staff. Why jepordize your legacy by engaging in this type of activity? I don't begrudge a team that in game can decipher defensive signals and use them to their advantage, IF it's just a guy say, on the sideline or in the pressbox using binoculars, but it appears that the level of sophistication that the Pats have used goes way beyond that.

    6.) How do you expect non-Pats fans to react to all this? You are surprised that this has resulted in doubts among your peers??
  8. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

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    10 characters
  9. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    10 Characters
  10. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    Thanks for posting! I missed that one. Too bad more media outlets aren't questioning Specter's true intentions and possibly investigating his integrity.:eek:
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Although I know you are talking about Jon Stewart, I am going to convince myself that you are talking about my stellar responses to the original questions.
  12. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I love the NFL, it's a sham, but an entertaining sham.
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1.) The Pats knew they would face the Steelers again. In fact, they met the first game of the year the following season. It is still impossible to take an analog camera and view and decode signals during halftime. No one has come up with credible way for the Patriots to view defensive signals during halftime. Besides, would trying to break down defensive signals be a better use of their staff's time than trying to make halftime adjustments?
    2.) Belichick may have understated the importance, but once these films are loaded into an AVID system, it doesn't take that much work to synch the things up. It is the loading an analog tape into an AVID system that takes the longest time.
    3.) I am sure there are plenty of things Belichick and Pioli do that Kraft doesn't have a clue about. And I am not talking about shady or illegal stuff. Kraft is a billionaire businessman with other business interests. He is not micromanaging Belichick to know his video staff's practices. Kraft is pretty hands off when it comes to Belichick.
    4.) JoePats answered this one.
    5.) This is why the Patriots are so successful. Not because they "cheat". Because they are sticklers for details. They want to know everything about their opponents and they will gather as much information as they can no matter how insignificant.
    6.) Who really cares what other people think? Other teams have been accused of and some even convicted of worse crimes than the Patriots. It just hasn't been blown out of proportion as Spygate has. The Denver Broncos were caught cheating the cap during their two Super Bowl wins by fudging both Elway's and Terrell Davis' contracts. That allowed them to have a stronger roster than they should have had. I consider that to be a worse crime with a clearer competitive advantage than filming defensive signals where it is legal to steal them anyway. Yet, no one talks about those Super Bowl wins by the Broncos of being tainted.
  14. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    Doesn't the rule state that taping from locations which are not enclosed on all sides and covered with a roof is illegal? I always assumed that meant you weren't allowed to tape the action on the field. You were allowed to tape interviews, training videos, or whatever, inside the stadium. Please correct me if I am wrong.
  15. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    No, you're allowed to tape action on the field, but presumably you're doing it to tape the splits, the angle that TV viewers can never get, the angle that coaches need for prep. Ostensibly, we're talking about shooting from the end zones, high up in some box somewhere, if that's possible. But it's not possible in every stadium so the NFL words things loosely to allow for Mangini to film "with permission." LOL.

    The whole thing is one big joke. Like a camera couldn't zoom in on signals from the upper deck. Yeah right.
  16. Marko

    Marko Rookie

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    The main thrust of this post was not really to have the questions answered, but to illustrate the lack of honest thought and unbiased reporting on the subject.
  17. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    Maybe this isn't the proper forum to debate the rules (again ;)), but the rule does not state that the taping location must be enclosed on three sides as suggested by Marko in an earlier post which I responded to. Since posting I have looked it up. The rule states, "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead." http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/sports/20080511_NFL_DOCUMENTS.pdf

    Why would the NFL bother having a rule which requires video shooting locations to be (in essence) fully enclosed, if they wanted teams to be able to video the field from that location? Are they worried about videographers being exposed to crowd noise? I am being silly of course, but I still don't "get" the spirit of that rule unless it is meant to prohibit taping of the field during games.
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  18. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    It depends on your interpretation of the rule. If you're in a glass cube then you're enclosed but you cans till see. Clearly, the NFL allowed taping from the end zone angle. This is still legal according to the NFL.
  19. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    According to the NFL rules, it's supposedly to protect the equipment and cameraman.

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=82481
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  20. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Pats said they didn't. They asked Jets' camera man to leave.

    If anybody thinks that Specter does it because he 'cares' about his team or the integrity of the game, he is a FOOL. Specter is full of ballony and a pathetic liar.

    His NFL 'Eagles' has not done well in the past few years. Have you seen Specter do anything to improve his team performance.? Not in a million year.

    Our Senators had a hearing about baseball drug scandal 3 or 4 months ago and it did not get any personal attention from any Senator including Specter. Suddenly, Specter personally involves in Spygate incident.? Something is not right here. If he really wants to be fair, he should ask Goodel to investigate every team.

    When his Eagles team is on the list, he will STFU. He uses Pats as his pawn to make Goodel 'look' bad.
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