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The Stimulus Bill: What say you?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, since the Stimulus Bill is not going to even be debated in the halls of congress (transparancy, inclusion, accountability, etc.), and is simply going to be voted on today, I was wondering what people have found out about the 650 page document. What's inside it? What's it really going to do? How much is it exactly? Do you like it? If so why, if not, why so?

    I can't help but laugh at how the bill is being fear mongered into a vote. As if waiting 3 days, or 2 weeks to actually discuss it in congress, and present it to the people of the country who have to pay the bill, just can't be done. So when some other Admin rushes crap through the system, it's bad, but when another does it, it's good? Why do I feel like we're going to find out about all kinds of ridiculous spending for special interests in this bill, after it's passed.

    Meet the new people, same as the old people.

    So, anyone know any specifics about this 650 page, $900 Billion dollar proposal?
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If Drudge is right (and he is specific) then :

    "but buried on page 147 of the bill is stimulation for prevention of sexually transmitted diseases! . . . The House Democrats' bill includes $335 million for sexually transmitted disease education and prevention programs at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned."

    In which case I'm against the whole thing as this shows there's stuff in there that has nothing to do with economic stimulus.
     
  3. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    [​IMG]

    ..................................
     
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Nice.

    Sweet.

     
  5. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    hey I agree with you RW. I've said this is going to be like the Big Dig on an exponential scale. All I really hold out hope for is a rebate check. It's just continued looting of the country. You or I ain't gonna see much of this stimulus bill
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I've been doing various Googles the last couple of days with the word Stimulus Bill in it, and I just found this blog, that has a pie chart of where the spending is going. I've got not clue about the blogger in question, but the pie chart is pretty cool.

    Ah, the pie chart is from the NYT actually.


    [​IMG]

    Take a look at the above chart. A very small percentage of the total $825 billion package will actually go directly to infrastructure projects. Some of the largest chunks of the package have absolutely nothing to do with infrastructure, such as:

    - $275 million in tax cuts - this is the part that I personally like the best

    - $87 billion is for a temporary increase in the Medicade matching rate - this is nothing more than printing money to prop up a slowly dying program.

    - $79 billion in state fiscal relief - one might be able to argue that some of this might be spent on infrastructure, but given the dire shape that most states are in I suspect that this will at best let them tread water...not start massive new projects.

    - $43 billion for increased unemployment benefits - no building here

    - $41 billion for local school districts - I actually like the fact that money is going to schools, not just because I am a father with two young sons, but also because better education helps the country build for the future. I have to wonder how much of this money will be used to actually build anything. I suspect that the bulk of it will go to pay teachers and pay for supplies.

    - $39 billion in healthcare for newly unemployed workers - no building here

    - $20 billion for food stamps - no building here either

    - Of course let's not forget the missing $31 or so billion that seems to be unaccounted for

    So what is being spent on infrastructure then? Let's see, there's:

    - $32 billion to "transform the nation's energy transmission, distribution, and production systems"

    - $31 billion to modernize federal and other infrastructure

    - $30 billion for highway construction

    - $19 billion for clean water, flood control, and other restoration investments

    - and a bunch of other smaller pieces of the pie.

    All told, I estimate that only around $144 billion of the total $825 billion package will be spent on actual infrastructure projects. That represents just 17% of the total pie.

    The myth of the coming infrastructure boom
     
  7. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    maes you wonder where we are heading and it doesn't look pretty
     
  8. PAPatsjunkie

    PAPatsjunkie On the Game Day Roster

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    "President Obama is taking a hands-on approach in shaping the $825 billion economic stimulus package under consideration by Congress, urging his fellow Democrats to take out provisions he feels are unnecessary and controversial, according to a senior administration official.

    An Obama aide said the President has personally called House Democratic leaders recently to urge them to remove a $200 million family planning provision which would have made it easier for states to use federal funds to provide contraception for poor families."

    Seems like Obama IS trying to reach out and compromise with the other party.
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    That's nice that he's looking to remove $200 million worth of special interest spending in an $800-900 Billion bill, and I mean that. However, why isn't this bill being debated publically, for all to see, in the halls of congress? If you were going to sign me to a $100 million deal, I'd be more than willing to give up a $50,000 All-star bonus clause, if it got someone to sign on the dotted line.
     
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Tax cuts don't work, governemnet spending will not fix this economy.

    I personally think if anything this bill is too LITTLE, I know that isn't popular. But if everyone, doubters and supporters agree, thinks that this economy needs a shot NOW...this isn't gunna cut it.

    we need to create and sustain JOBS. We need to bring back manufacturing and build the middle class. We need to tax people, and corporations who have enough money to cheat the system (remove loopholes). We need to call those people out on exactly waht they are ... 'Traiters'. We need a flat tax, not tax cuts. We need to remove the IRS, and other wasteful government programs....


    and more than anything....


    WE NEED TO REDUCE THE DEFICIT.
     
  11. Bigdogx

    Bigdogx On the Game Day Roster

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    Nothing but the same old game of dirty politics IMO, once a Chicago politician always one.
     
  12. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I agree with you, especially about the flat tax. Will never happen though. Taxes have now become a tool used by politicians to repay favors, control and influence the masses, and garner votes. A flat tax would only reduce the power of the Washington heads and put it back where it rightfully belongs, the people.
     
  13. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    NOTE: This is from a "BLOG" not supported or liked to any source its an opinion piece. I hate BLOG and people who BLOG, I hate the word "BLOG" and I hate myself for posting someone's BLOG. I removed the BLOGGER's comments, thus you can look at the figures and enrage yourself in your own special way. If you'd like to read the BLOGGER's reaction to these figures, please click on the link to the BLOG.

    850 Billion is a lot of dough...a lot of OUR dough....


    • The non-job creating spending in this PROPOSED bill includes:

    a) $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts.
    b) $400 million to study climate change.
    c) $200 million to revitalize the National Mall, including planting new sod
    d) $1.1 billion to allow the Secretary of Health and Human Services to establish a permanent board to ration health care services, a precursor to universal health care.
    e) Hundreds of millions of dollars for contraceptives and family planning services through Medicaid.
    f) $650 million dollars for additional digital TV converter box coupons.
    g) $166 billion in direct aid to help states pay their bills.
    h) $13 billion for reading programs.
    i) $15.6 billion to increase the maximum annual Pell grant by $500 from $4,360 to $4,860.
    j) $3 billion to public health departments for additional immunizations.
    k) $1 billion in additional funding to pay heating bills of low-income Americans.
    l) $1 billion for the 2010 census.
    m) $100 million for National Science Foundation scholarships.
    n) $200 million for nutrition programs.
    o) $200 million to provide incentives to teachers to raise test scores.
    p) $2 billion in additional funds for low-income child care.
    q) $900 million in additional funds to prepare for the pandemic flu.



    The Coming Depression: Here is where the 825 Billion is going! This is INSANE! CALL YOUR SENATORS!



    Blog......
     
  14. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It is a stimulus package not an infrastructure package.

    The fact is the best way to stimulate the economy is to give money to people who are living paycheck to paycheck.

    If you give a tax cut to some who is already doing okay, they might spend it, they might not. They might invest in a new business, they might use it ship jobs overseas. You really don't know what they will do.

    But if you give foodstamps, medicare, unemployment benefits to people who live paycheck to paycheck, they will spend the money. That is stimulus.
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So tax breaks don't work, and government spending won't fix the economy, but we need the government to make this expense bill bigger? :confused:

    Tax reductions, or incentives, tend to work best actually.
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    No it isn't. How'd handing out $300 billion in 2008 work out? It didn't. This is a pathetic piece of legistlation. This is another TARP bill. It's being rushed through like TARP was, and fear mongered, while it'll have very little effect on the real problems surrounding the economy. This is another give away.

    BTW, how's handing out money for condoms, TV converter boxes, Pell Grants, and whatever other idiotic crap that's in there, going to create jobs?
     
  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    Wow.....do you get all your TPs from Rush?

    I just heard him spew this same BS.

    Its not as simple as that, and you and I both know it.

    There are a million different things that are wrong with our system. Simply saying that "Tax cuts will work" is....FUKCING DUMB. Simply saying that "Government is the solution" is ..... FUKCING DUMB.

    Its a philosophical change in the payment and spending habits of our debt riddled society. Its the greed that exists at the top and the poverty that has been growing at the bottom. It is the outsourcing, and golden parachutes. Its the lack of funding of our future generations, and lack of funding on their healthcare. We will be raising, under the last administration, the dumbest and sickest generation yet....all with no skills, all with no vision for america's future. We will be surpassed by China and India very soon if we don't build our foundataion.

    Its NOT SIMPLE, its not a small solution. But we have been sitting on our a$$ez for the last few years on this, while billionairs make money, and a 3rd grader now has no art class, or even a full time janitor. Our priorities are outta whack.....we need to make the stimulous BIGGER.

    I know you tax break, government isn't the answer BS Conservatives think differently, but HONESTLY....you had your shot, and you fukced it up REAL bad. Look around.

    TAX BREAKS DIDN'T WORK.....why do it again?

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  18. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last night I heard everyone's supposed to get a stimulus check but not as one check. According to the people I was with, the amount you get depends on single,family,etc like always, but we get the money in our checks every week, spread out over the year.

    I can't confirm or deny the factualness of all this but if it's true, does that mean we're taxed on it?
     
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    This is still being debated in congress.....we have no clue what, if anything, people will or will not get.

    I hear that both Obama and Boehner read this blog, so get your points out now.
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm at work, with WEEI on, and don't listen to Rush, so no. Also, I made my comment from your own words dude. So if it's dumb, then you need to look in the mirror for the reason why. You said in a single post, that "A" won't work, and "B" won't work, cuz "C" can't fix the problem, so therefore we need "C" to spend way more "B". WTF does that mean? How can more of what you said can't fix the problem, work?

    Economies are cyclical, and I'd be more inclined to let things be personally. I'm not totally opposed to stimulus type bills, but I will only support one if it is structured specifically to my liking. I like tax incentives to businesses for capital improvements, payroll deductions to help people who work keep more of their cash, and if need be some infrastructure spending that actually goes toward infrastructure, and only cuz it's a need. To simply build a road for the sake of building a road, is a waste. I know that in the bill passed about 7 or so years ago, there was a capital imporvement deduction that was added for business', and it propelled us to buy a new truck, which we hadn't done since I been here. The tax incentive was the main reason why. That truck cost cost somewhere around $50k. Handing out condoms isn't going to spur business' to buy durable goods, or permit workers to keep more of their cash.
     

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