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The Socialist- Communist thread

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by MOSS, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. MOSS

    MOSS Practice Squad Player

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    From Karl Marx to Mao Zedong to Joseph Stalin to Che Guevara to any important person in this politics. Discuss the good and flaws of Socalist- Communist. And Obama is neither one for you right wing people. And there some socialist things already in the United States.
     
  2. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    The good - reducing economic inequality and taking a humanistic perspective on economics.

    The bad - authoritarian communism and all the repressions that went along with it. Stalin was a real 4ss.

    The interesting - how does one institute major economic changes, and by major I mean actually significant and meaningful changes and not just a bill with a nice name on it, without resorting to violence? Is it even possible?
     
  3. MOSS

    MOSS Practice Squad Player

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    I know one thing: There will never be a far Socialist- Communist president ever in my opinion.
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mao and Stalin were nation builders, though Mao was far more successful, uniting a more fractured nation, defeating multiple feudal and foreign enemies, and laying the groundwork for an infrastructure that has evolved to make China into a very important nation. Stalin, too, was a nation-builder, and was really the main one to defeat Hitler and managed to build a huge and powerful empire, but the infrastructure he put together was too corrupt to survive and adjust to the times.

    Che Guevara gave voice to the poor and disenfranchised at a time the corporations and imperialists were committing all sorts of crimes. He also played an important role in helping Communist Cuba establish a system effective enough to weather multiple attempts by every president from at least Kennedy to Reagan to undermine it.

    Marx's economic theory helped lay the groundwork for the idea that society exists to serve the workers, not the investors. His theories have had a huge impact in every country. The idea that some of the wealth of a nation belongs to its citizens in aggregate is fairly well accepted around the world at this point. In addition, his theory has been proven repeatedly if you buy the idea that the western nations wage war to create new markets in order to sustain their economies.

    I think looked at objectively they were all very important and very successful, and their crimes in the theater of history were no worse than our crimes against the blacks, the Native Americans, and other groups. The price of nation building is very high, and it's very difficult to say if that price is worth it. Was the slaughter of Indians and the enslavement of blacks worth the creation of the United States? Were the crimes of Mao and Stalin worth the creation of China and the Soviet Union? I'm not sure there are easy ways to answer those questions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have just gone through 18 months of socialism in this country under the leadership of Barack Hussein Obama and the Nancy Pelosi Gang Of Grinners, America didn't like it and in a few weeks the people will go to the polls and show our leaders just exactly what they think about Obama, Pelosi and Socialism.
     
  6. MOSS

    MOSS Practice Squad Player

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    William Z. Foster & Benjamin Gitlow
    William Z. Foster & James W. Ford

    Earl Browder & James W. Ford

    Charlene Mitchell & Michael Zagarell

    Gus Hall & Angela Davis
     
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Angela Davis, boy I remember her.
     
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Stalin & Mao: Scumbag, Murderers of their own citizens

    Che Guevara: Scumbag, Murderer of his own citizens


    Karl Marx: The man who wrote the groundwork for the most notorious murderers in history.
     
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    And that would be a GOOD thing for all of us.
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And so were we. We killed about 2% of our citizens in the Civil War. China killed about 3% of its citizens during its Civil War. In addition, we committed horrific crimes against American Indians (killing depending on who you believe between 1 million and 100 million) and blacks (more than a million died coming here and I would guess that many died before their time as a result of being enslaved).

    Karl Marx wrote about the economic system, not the political system. It's perfectly possible to have a democracy under communism. Also, why do you so quickly discount the horrific crimes of imperialism? King Leopold of Beligium ran the Belgium Congo as a private corporation and killed off an estimated 5,000,000 people. There are many horrific examples of this type of thing without evening mentioning any of the capitalist dictatorships that have popped in in Europe and South America over the years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Screwy Liberal Head:
    They hate the Employer
    They love the Employee

    Where would the Employee be without the Employer?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    They despise Original American Culture
    They claim to be "non violent"
    They claim to support "womens rights"
    They claim to be against "police brutality"
    They claim to support "freedom of speech"
    They claim to support "Homosexuality"
    On and On and On
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    WHY DO THESE LIBERALS SUPPORT A RELIGON
    AND A POLITICAL WAY OF LIFE THAT IS AGAINST
    EVERYTHING THEY CLAIM TO BELIEVE IN

    What Attracts The American Liberal To These Two Things?
    ISLAM AND COMMUNISM
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  12. MOSS

    MOSS Practice Squad Player

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    Liberals are different. They don't hate America, they just want to move forward in the future. There not Socialist or Communist.
     
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Harry, why don't you stfu if you can't contribute like an adult? This thread could actually be thoughtful and interesting, instead of the usual partisan memes being exchanged.

    --------------

    Moss, my first thought when I read your post starting this is that you may want to include your definitions of socialism and communism.

    The biggest problem I see with pure socialism is that I don't think the government can or shpuld make the kinds of decisions as well as individual investors and entrepreneurs and the market, and it prevents too many people from doing and earning what they otherwise could. But I don't think many people advocate an extreme form of socialism anymore (which gets back to my suggest on defining what you're talking about here).

    I realize you may not want get into a discussion of the definitions, but maybe it would help avoid posts that are about things other than socialism/communism.
     
  14. MOSS

    MOSS Practice Squad Player

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    so·cial·ism


    –noun
    1.
    a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
    2.
    procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
    3.
    (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.


    com·mu·nism



    1.a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
    2.
    ( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.
    3.
    ( initial capital letter ) the principles and practices of the Communist party.
     
  15. MOSS

    MOSS Practice Squad Player

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    True since they seem to be murders of innocent people.
     
  16. MOSS

    MOSS Practice Squad Player

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    So does anyone like my definition of Socialist-Coummunist?
     
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think from a technical perspective those definitions are good, but I think both terms are used by both sides far more broadly.
     
  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Patters...you really need to put your thoughts in proper perspective. The US was in it's infancy when it was at war with native Americans. Historically, it ocurred in the mid to late 1800's...ditto slavery.

    Now you want to compare that with scum like Che Guevara, Stalin and Mao who committed their murders in the 1900's, repressed their people and had citizens spying upon one another to be executed.

    Go to any website and you'll find these 3 horrific men among the worst individuals in history. They are in the same category as Hitler.

    Try again pal....
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Stalin was an awful man. The others I don't agree with. To the victims of right-wing governments in South America and the poor Indians and others, Che Guevara was a hero giving them a voice. Yes, if you were not one of the poor, you didn't like Che and you probably liked the dictators and their American allies instead. China was a nation regularly plundered and attack by the British, the Japanese, and feudal warlords. It was a nation that was being exploited. What we did to the Indians continued right up until the 1970s, with terrible crimes happening only about 100 years ago. The crimes against blacks continued right up until the 1960s, not only with lynchings, but with the sort of racism that led to high infant mortality rates, shorter lifespans, and so on. Stop looking at things only through the eyes of a middle class white guy (which I presume you are). If you're going to judge history, you have to look at through different lenses in my opinion. To American Indians, Andrew Jackson was a murderer and a liar and to blacks our founding fathers were enslavers who ignored horrific abuses.
     
  20. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    PATTERS!!!! WAKE UP!!:eek:

    You're making comparisons that can't be made. You're comparing DICTATORS the the United States....you're comparing people to countries and that's not possible. But you keep trying and trying.

    Please provide a link to any article showing proof that any US president had people spying upon their fellow citizens to have them executed.

    It is historical FACT that Guevara was a peice of sh1t, that Mao was a piece of sh1t and ditto on Stalin. Why do you think their own citizens weren't free to leave their country? Why did so many die trying to leave these countries. And why did so many Russians and Chinese flee to America?

    Yap all you want, these men are all burning in hell and I'm standing here dancing on their scummy graves laughin my arse off.

    P.S. In the future, please don't bring my race into any discussion. It's as irrelevant as the color of the sky. And it would be nice if you allowed your heart to stop bleeding for every race but caucasians.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010

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