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The Silver Lining to the Branch Cloud

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JR4, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was just thinking about this Branch thing and how the Patriots management has responded.

    PATs Management is Smart

    Their decisions were not arbitrary but very calculated to achieve
    what they wanted ... to set a precedence on how they would respond to
    players who act like Branch in the future.

    IMO, here's what their actions say to players:

    1. If you want to force a contract extension we may make you a fair offer
    but it maybe not as much as if you had waited until we approached you.
    2. If we can not come to an agreement we will be ready to let you
    hold out all season.
    3. You will get charged penalties and loss any salary while on reserve/did not report list.
    4. We will find a way to move on without you and still be effective.

    I believe the fair offer but firm stand PATs have used will serve them well in the future.

    Also players will have to see what has happened to Branch's reputation,
    a sad thing for Deion. ( his agent's license should be revoked )

    I see a silver lining to the Branch Cloud.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2006
  2. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Rookie

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    Dude, are you messin with my head?
  3. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 Rookie

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    Say wha? :O
  4. marty

    marty Rookie

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    Clear evidence that one's spent to much time thinking through the Branch saga!:D
  5. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    sorry bout that .....:) .... it's gone now.
  6. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    yeah ... but the Silver Lining is still there :rolleyes:
  7. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

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    I have stayed out of this discussion cause I can't really figure out how it got so messy so quick and there must have been something that happened that hasn't been reported.
    BUT, if you think this is going to send a good message to the players, or a message you want to send to the players you are high on crack. This has done nothing but foment distrust and antagonism from the players towards management evidenced by the recurring quotes from 'unidentified Pats players' that 'if this is the way they treat Branhc who is said to be their tyope of player how are they going to deal with the rest of us?' So if the Pats want to keep playng hardball they can continue to see their FAs walk, even if the money is the same and there certainly be no more hometown discounts a la BRady and Bruschi. Wasn't Bruschi even quoted last year kicking himself for giving the hometown discount?

    Playing hardball all the time may make you look like a tough, assertive negotiator but more often than not doesn't garner what you seek. Remember, you catch more flies with honey thatn vinegar.
  8. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I disagree. Your assuption is they just played harball. WRONG!

    They made a fair and decent offer to a guy who held out of preseason
    activity.
    Players will not see that as a hardball .. no give ... policy.

    They will see a player who was still under contract ... not living up to that
    contract ... but the PATs still giving him a very reasonable offer.
    As I said, probably not as much as if he had waited but a very reasonaable
    19+M over 3 years.

    But after that offer they stood firm even when Branch's agent did not
    counter with an alternative offer.

    All Players are not dumb they know it was a reasonable thing the PATs did.
    Patriots should come out of this thing looking pretty good.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2006
  9. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

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    Then why all the various quotes from players, named and unnamed? Why are FA's leaving without giving the Pats a chance to make an offer? Why is Bruschi thinking he made a foolish choice in sacrificing for the organization, intimating the organization was not showing the same loyalty to it's players?
    I gues that is what it comes down to? A lot of fans expect players (Givens, Vinitiari etc) to show some loyalty to the team when the Pats team has shown absolutely zero loyalty to its players.
  10. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Bruschi said what now?
  11. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    And then it encourages more and more players to do the same thing in subsequent years.
  12. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Funny, those player quotes sure seem almost verbatim similar to the ones spoken after Milloy was let go.

    Funny how the Pats followed that huge morale crisis with back to back 17-2 Super Bowl Championships in 2003 and 2004.

    You bringing up Bruschi here is particularly hilarious since he had the most incendiary lockerroom comments the day Milloy was cut.......didn't seem to stop him from taking the hometown discount one year after, did it?

    Sorry, Closing Time - - try again.
  13. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    Upon reading these claims in your first post, i was inclined to let errors slide by.
    Since you go to the trouble of repeating them, let me say
    that - while i read quite a bit about this organization - i have not encountered
    ANY quotes like that by players, named or unnamed.
    Nor have i seen any statement such as the one you put in his mouth attributed to Bruschi.
    The free agents who find that the halo effect of having played here makes them worth more to some other team ...
    realize that they should cash that check before it dries, because the Pats know better
    than to offer Woody, Washington, Patten, Givens, McGinest, Vinitiari those premiums they got elsewhere.
  14. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    That's just an ignorant statement. The team has been very generous and shown tremendous loyalty to their players, some of whom are still here and some of whom moved on.

    If you had your way, we'd be overpaying right now for Lawyer Milloy and Damien Woody - and probably have only the 1 Super Bowl instead of 3.
  15. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

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    shmeesy and the other, I never said any of this effected the way they played on the field, but it certainly has proven to effect the way players react in contract negotiations and free agency.

    And Bruschi's comments I am refgerring to are much more recent than Miloy. I just can't recall the contect right now.
    Again you are confusing two things. It's the same response I heard when Tom Jackson said "They hate their coach". Once the Pats won, many took that as a sign that Jackson was full of chit. but why? Plenty of sports coaches are disliked by their players. Think any player ever liked Bobby Knight? Pat Riley? Larry Brown? Vince Lombardi? Buddy Ryan? an so on? Doesn't mean they didn't win. Doesn't mean they weren't respected. Honestly being liked or hated doesn't have anything to do with winning. It may however, when combined with a FO that does like to play hardball, make it difficult to retain players.
  16. Gopats!!!

    Gopats!!! Rookie

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    I absolutely think the Pats have done the right thing.

    db was trying to lead the Pats around by the nose. Allowing players to decide their own salaries is crazy. I can't believe anyone (other than a player!) would advocate this.

    It is about negotiating and getting a fair deal.

    Ruining the team by screwing up the salary cap is not too bright IMO. Yes, the players looking to squeeze every cent out of the team will often walk (Unless they are worth it). But players who just want a fair deal and want to win will stay with the Pats. They are the type of high character guys that have seen the Pats win three Super Bowls. There will always be greedy players who only care about the $, and think "fair" means they get paid way more than they are worth, but in the long run the Pats are better off without them.

    P.S.
    I don't understand the whole "Look what the Pats did to db" thing. db has done all this to himself. How can the Pats take the blame for him not playing or attending training camp or any of that stuff? It makes no sense.
  17. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

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    You need to read more then.
  18. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I wouldn't call it a silver lining either but I agree that the Patriots are taking the position they are based on principal.

    The principal is that players under contract are compelled to report.

    The principal is that if the player wants to be re-signed a year before free agency, and the team wants to re-sign him, a fair offer that takes that into account will be made.

    The Patriots will not fold and allow Branch's agent to establishe a principal that places them in a bad situation with future players who are under contract and are demanding to be paid more than what they would be worth as a free agent - if indeed they were a free agent.

    The Branch situation will hurt us now, but I believe we'd be hurt more in the long term if the front office established the wrong principals here.
  19. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    No one can repeat in the salary cap era.

    Common knowledge only a few years ago.

    This is because players want more and more money once they've won and teams over value players on Super Bowl teams.

    The only message here is "honor your contract".

    Shall we say, "Hey, don't worry about those silly contracts. Everybody gets to tear them up and we'll pay you as much or more than the highest bidder".

    Now that we're being nice, you have to promise to win it all this year, cause we're going to have to cut half the team next year.

    So promise. Cross your heart and hope to die you'll win this year, cause we're going into cap hell for three or four years until we can build a new team.

    Promise?? Remember, we were nice!:D :bricks:
  20. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

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    Perception is reality though and the perception amongst the players is that the Pats have treated Deion unfairly. Maybe unfairly is the wrong word. Disrepsted? No..it's a favorite, I know but doesn't quite fit. Well in any case the perception is the Pats showed little loyalty to a solid contributor like Branch.
    IMO, the Pats only mistake was allowing Branch to seek out a trade. That made this whole thing into a circus. They should have just let him either hold out till game 10 or come back when he wanted and let him ride off into the sunset at the end of the season and be done with it. Steelers did that with another malcontent WR in Plaxico Burress.
    It just got messy with the trade option and despite JR's 'silver lining' the egg is still dripping from Beoli's face.
  21. jimmyjames

    jimmyjames Rookie

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    Can you please provide links or at the very least the names of the news sources where you saw these quotes? i would be interetsed to read them. Thanks.
  22. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

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    Do your own reserch and reading. I don't have them handy but I assure you I am not making this stuff up and I'm sure others will attest to it.
  23. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Eh. You may be right, but that quote is from a Borges story so I have to question it somewhat. If you want to know what the players' attitude might be, keep listening to Brady. I think between the lines it's pretty clear that he, at least, understands management's position. That doesn't mean they all do, but he's a pretty important piece.
  24. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, I think you are lying. I'm sorry I'm being vague about my feelings but you can defintely quote me on that.
  25. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

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    That's your right. Have a super day.
  26. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    CT: shmeesy and the other, I never said any of this effected the way they played on the field, but it certainly has proven to effect the way players react in contract negotiations and free agency.
    ___________________
    Shmessy: So if it doesn't affect the team's performance, we should care because...........?????
    __________________-
    CT: And Bruschi's comments I am refgerring to are much more recent than Miloy. I just can't recall the contect right now.
    ____________________
    Shmessy: And I SHOWED you that Bru has said stuff like that before and it had ZERO effect on how he feels long-term about the organization, Mr Kraft or BB. Why should we care about it this time?
    _______________________
    CT: Again you are confusing two things. It's the same response I heard when Tom Jackson said "They hate their coach". Once the Pats won, many took that as a sign that Jackson was full of chit. but why? Plenty of sports coaches are disliked by their players. Think any player ever liked Bobby Knight? Pat Riley? Larry Brown? Vince Lombardi? Buddy Ryan? an so on? Doesn't mean they didn't win. Doesn't mean they weren't respected. Honestly being liked or hated doesn't have anything to do with winning. It may however, when combined with a FO that does like to play hardball, make it difficult to retain players.
    ______________________
    Shmessy: Who cares about retaining players if we can win with their replacements? What's your beef? Hate to take down your fave player's posters from your bedroom when they leave town. Got news for ya, CT, whether it's a carpetbagger like Randel-El or Mayor of Pittsburgh Cowher, these guys are living their OWN lives. We should live ours. I root for the Patriots because they do things the right way, not like Danny Snyder.

    I also haven't had an "Idol Complex" since I was 15 years old.

    Grow up
  27. jimmyjames

    jimmyjames Rookie

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    I think you can see by the reaction you are getting here that unless you can provide some sort of back up it's tough for people to take your claims seriously.

    I have seen very little player input on to the Branch situation as expected. Part of why the reaction to this whole mess has been so heated on the part of fans and the FO is that airing team business in the press is not a trait of Patriots' teams under Belichick. The only thing I have read in terms of player reaction was about Brady's stint of civil disobedience at the start of training camp and a single line from Mike Reiss to the effect that players understand that this is a business and as a rule it is not discussed in the locker room. While I am not so naive as to think that all Pats Players are blindly siding with the team and the FO on this matter I just doubt that you would find any players saying anything on or off the record about the matter to the press. And while I may be wrong, unless you can show me what you claim to have have read, I think you are just making things up to try to prove a point. Which is in effect plagerism.
  28. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good points and I agree - show us, don't - tell us but it's not plagerism (taking credit for someone's writing or thoughts), it's lying.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2006
  29. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Jimmyjames wrote: "I think you are just making things up to try to prove a point. Which is in effect plagerism."
    ____________________

    Actually, that is the OPPOSITE of plagiarism.
  30. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime Rookie

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    It's not about Idol Complex or Posters on the wall or anything else besides winning, which the Pats have done, so you make a good point - why should anyone care? because it does and will affect winning. the thing that the Pats are blessed with is Brady, which has allowed them to cover for a lot of their holes and weather a lot of the defections. With the talent the Pats have had on the offensive side of the ball the past couple years their offense should have been terrible, but it's one of the most dangerous because of Brady. the pats have virtually no one to catch the ball this year, dillon is winding down, maroney is already banged up and there are still gaping holes int he Pats secondary but the Pats are the consensus pick to go to the SDuperbowl. Why? Because of Brady. So yes, I guess as long as Brady is playing at the level he has the past three years then how the Pats deal with FA's doens't matter. But when that slipper comes off it's going to get ugly quick.

    And jimmy, I don't really care if some think I am making this stuff up. I would assume most have read the same stuff I have and know what I am talking about.

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