The significance of Brian Daboll hiring

[manxman2601]

How can you say it doesn't bode all that well for Welker considering that only Lloyd is under contract beyond this season? Identifying WRs and developing them means they are (more than likely) 2 years away from being fully productive. Meaning that getting others in here that can get on track with Brady is a necessity this off-season, yet again. Even if Edelman and Welker are re-signed, by 2015, Lloyd and Welker will be at 34 and the Pats will be needing youth in the WR corps.. Guys who can take the load off Lloyd and Welker.

Because if they're going to the expense of signing a presumably fairly expensive coach, they're expecting to invest some serious capital. If Welker and Lloyd are onboard for another two years or so, investing high draft capital for future replacements that will barely see the field doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you read the draft forum enough, you'll know I'm one of the biggest advocates of drafting WR's in this draft but even I wouldn't really contemplate drafting one in the 1st to 3rd round and have them see limited action for two years.

 

[unoriginal]

I believe elsewhere it has been noted the Pats have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league, primarily due to their own talent being poached around the league year after year. This move is probably less about targeting a certain coaching need then just hiring coaching talent when it becomes available again. Like the players, many of these guys can coach and have coached multiple positions.

As for Saban, in addition to what others have mentioned, there's that story that he once asked his AD at Alabama if he felt he had the best coach in college football. The AD said, yes, I feel I do. Saban told him he was wrong, but that he did have the best recruiter in college football.

Now, a lot of the reason Nick Saban is a great recruiter is because he can truthfully say "I learned how to coach in the NFL and I run a pro-style offense and a pro-style defense and I run my program like an NFL program, so if you are looking to play in the NFL one day you should come play football at Alabama." But it also illustrates that he now feels he's a far better fit for the college game then the NFL.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I believe elsewhere it has been noted the Pats have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league, primarily due to their own talent being poached around the league year after year. This move is probably less about targeting a certain coaching need then just hiring coaching talent when it becomes available again. Like the players, many of these guys can coach and have coached multiple positions.

As for Saban, in addition to what others have mentioned, there's that story that he once asked his AD at Alabama if he felt he had the best coach in college football. The AD said, yes, I feel I do. Saban told him he was wrong, but that he did have the best recruiter in college football.

Now, a lot of the reason Nick Saban is a great recruiter is because he can truthfully say "I learned how to coach in the NFL and I run a pro-style offense and a pro-style defense and I run my program like an NFL program, so if you are looking to play in the NFL one day you should come play football at Alabama." But it also illustrates that he now feels he's a far better fit for the college game then the NFL.

What an honest, and self aware valuation.

College Recruiting is like the NFL talent evaluation, and the NFL Draft. Success largely depends on choosing the best talent to decide to recruit, either from the High Schools; or from amongst the FAs and or Draft.
:bricks:

 

[Metaphors]

I believe elsewhere it has been noted the Pats have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league,

:yeahthat: If the Pats win this Sunday, there will be time to put together an innovative gameplan, install it and practice it before the SB. That means there is a lot of stuff to do that you don't have time to accomplish in a typical game week. Daboll is a familiar face and a trusted brain that can be used during this time. Get him on-board this week so he is ready to go Monday morning.

 

[DaBruinz]

Because if they're going to the expense of signing a presumably fairly expensive coach, they're expecting to invest some serious capital. If Welker and Lloyd are onboard for another two years or so, investing high draft capital for future replacements that will barely see the field doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you read the draft forum enough, you'll know I'm one of the biggest advocates of drafting WR's in this draft but even I wouldn't really contemplate drafting one in the 1st to 3rd round and have them see limited action for two years.

So, you make the assumption that Daboll is a fairly expensive coach and then make all sorts of other wrong assumptions to go with that. BTW, David Givens was a 7th round pick. Ebert was a 7th round pick. The Pats could use a pick outside the 1st two rounds on a player (so NOT high draft capital) with the idea of them developing over the next 2 years.

I'll be honest. I couldn't care less what you claim to advocate. You made huge assumptions that make no sense what so ever.

 

[manxman2601]

So, you make the assumption that Daboll is a fairly expensive coach and then make all sorts of other wrong assumptions to go with that. BTW, David Givens was a 7th round pick. Ebert was a 7th round pick. The Pats could use a pick outside the 1st two rounds on a player (so NOT high draft capital) with the idea of them developing over the next 2 years.

I'll be honest. I couldn't care less what you claim to advocate. You made huge assumptions that make no sense what so ever.

Fine. If you couldn't care less, why bother to respond?

 

[Fencer]

:yeahthat: If the Pats win this Sunday, there will be time to put together an innovative gameplan, install it and practice it before the SB. That means there is a lot of stuff to do that you don't have time to accomplish in a typical game week. Daboll is a familiar face and a trusted brain that can be used during this time. Get him on-board this week so he is ready to go Monday morning.

Good point. I'd go further and say that Daboli's jobs THIS week will likely be, in declining order of time expenditure:

1. Prepare for the Super Bowl.
2. Self-scout.
3. Help plan and coach for the Ravens game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Fine. If you couldn't care less, why bother to respond?

Manx - I said I could care less about what you Advocated. NOT about the post in general. You seriously need to loosen up those anal muscles some or maybe we should just start calling you "Ed Rooney" instead..

 

[manxman2601]

Manx - I said I could care less about what you Advocated. NOT about the post in general. You seriously need to loosen up those anal muscles some or maybe we should just start calling you "Ed Rooney" instead..

1. anal muscles are fine but thanks for the concern.

2. Have no idea who Ed Rooney is.

3. Who's "we"

4. Off back to the Draft board, none of the aggravation.

5. Look forward to seeing you there nearer draft time.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sorry Mo. Can't agree with the claim that Daboll failed as an OC. No one would have succeeded as an OC in Cleveland with the garbage that was there. In Miami, they actually improved under Daboll's tutelage. It wasn't Daboll's fault that Sparano was a horrible HC and that Miami brought in garbage players.. As for in KC, not sure how you can blame Daboll there. They lost their starting center 3 games in and didn't have an adequate back-up. That has to fall on Pioli, RAC and their O-Line Coach. They also lost their primary back-up TE (Kevin Boss) after 2 games, though they still had enough offensive weapons that they should have done better than they did, but Lilja, Hochstein and Allen proved not to be up to the task of holding up the interior of that line.. And that hurt them big time.

Where I will hold Daboll accountable as an OC is the fact that Cassell clearly regressed. Possibly because of the injuries. Possibly because of getting sacked so many times (41 times in his last 18 games). But possibly from Daboll being his 3rd OC in 4 years..

He failed. That's a simple fact. Whether there were extenuating circumstances is debatable. He had 3 shots and you seldom get more absent a step back and resume rehab. Have no idea what Bill saw in him early on but it was not as much as he saw in Josh. And Daboll, like Davidson and Mangini, was impatient and disagreed with his assessment. He wanted to at least get the QB's coach title in order to remain, and Bill denied him. Perhaps Bill now feels that Daboll having been humbled by the harsh reality of the process still has upside and the potential to become an OC. Josh probably won't be here past next season given there is already interest in him after just one season back on the Brady train.

And there is the matter of Daboll's previous experience in working with WR's here and developing both Branch and Givens between 2002-2006 - although Brady himself had a little something to do with that. A level of success this team hasn't been able to duplicate since. He had nothing to do with Brown and Patten's development within the system or their sympatico with Brady since he wasn't a position coach in 2000-2001, he was a defensive assistant his first 2 years here. Coming in from a graduate assistent stint with Saban at MSU, as did Josh the following season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I believe elsewhere it has been noted the Pats have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league, primarily due to their own talent being poached around the league year after year. This move is probably less about targeting a certain coaching need then just hiring coaching talent when it becomes available again. Like the players, many of these guys can coach and have coached multiple positions.

Good thoughts. There may be other reasons as well.

Daboll was born and raised in this system and organization. He knows it and may have developed a few wrinkles that may help the offense this time of year.

Maybe O'Shea or Godsey gave BB their notice and are moving on.

Maybe JMD told BB Mallet needs more mentoring and doesn't have the time.

Maybe the fact that JMD will be a HC in 2014 (somewhere?) and BB respects Daboll enough to potentially create an opportunity for him here.

I think because he was an OC for teams that played the Pats, maybe there is that "outsiders perspective" that BB really values this time of year.

Who knows for sure but the fact that BB would sign off on Daboll joining the staff during a playoff run tells me that he respects the hell out of him and appreciates his work enough that he thinks he can help the team.

 

[jbb9s]

The Patriots ahve announced that former Patriots coach and OC at several other teams will be joining the Patriots staff.

Why now? Daboll was his OC under McDaniel, so he is comfortable with him, and would make an easy transition to OC under McDaniels.

Comments?

Unfortunately I think you're off. BB is coaching for 5+ more years. No one has ever heard him say anything about retirement. Period.

The reality is if the McDaniels isn't going to wait around 5 yrs to be a HC. He had a deal with BB to stay at least 2 (or 3) hence his declining to interview this cycle. But he will be leaving again and Daboll is probably going to get an extended interview process (i.e. assistant for a year or 2) for the OC.

 

[IllegalContact]

I see this as preliminary preparations for the post brady patriots. without brady, it will be back to the drawing board where a more protective scheme will have to take on a much bigger role much as it did in the first few year of brady's career. the pats won 3 SB's with BB,weis,crennel,mcdaniel,mangini,obrien,daboll,etc.........a very accomplished bunch.....you'll need that again at some point

it's like building a machine......you need people to build it, then when its running great, you don't need the people as much.....but when its time to rebuild the machine, you need them again

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Saban said, within the last week, that he has no intention of returning to the NFL. Ever.

Daboll was re-hired, in my honest opinion, because of his ability to develop WRs. Daboll was the WR coach who helped Troy Brown and David Patten develop their rapport with Brady and then also who helped Deion Branch and David Givens. Daboll also seems to be better at talent evaluation of WRs than McDaniels. It was Daboll who said that Chad Jackson wouldn't be coachable and wouldn't work in New England despite the glowing endorsement Jackson got from McDaniels..

The Pats have failed to draft a WR who has been capable of developing into a productive receiver since Givens, though Edelman seems close..

Interesting info there. WR is one of the few areas where the top contributors are on the wrong side of 30 and should be a focus in upcoming drafts.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry Mo. Can't agree with the claim that Daboll failed as an OC. No one would have succeeded as an OC in Cleveland with the garbage that was there. In Miami, they actually improved under Daboll's tutelage. It wasn't Daboll's fault that Sparano was a horrible HC and that Miami brought in garbage players.. As for in KC, not sure how you can blame Daboll there. They lost their starting center 3 games in and didn't have an adequate back-up. That has to fall on Pioli, RAC and their O-Line Coach. They also lost their primary back-up TE (Kevin Boss) after 2 games, though they still had enough offensive weapons that they should have done better than they did, but Lilja, Hochstein and Allen proved not to be up to the task of holding up the interior of that line.. And that hurt them big time.

Where I will hold Daboll accountable as an OC is the fact that Cassell clearly regressed. Possibly because of the injuries. Possibly because of getting sacked so many times (41 times in his last 18 games). But possibly from Daboll being his 3rd OC in 4 years..

I think the fact that every offense he has ever coordinated has stunk means more than all of the excuses you want to line up for him.

 

[mgteich]

1) Daboll needed a job and fits well in the system he knows in New England.

2) Josh won't leave this year, but could certainly leave in the next couple of years. Josh is in the position of having a great job; but, someone could tempt him. I don't see Josh simply sitting around for 5 years in the expectation that he will lead the post-Belichick, post-Brady patriots. I expect the Belichick-Brady era to end with them both leaving in 5 years or so.

3) We need additional coaching talent. It cannot hurt to have a coach with strengths in developing QB's and WR's.

4) i see no negatives in adding Daboll and no need for looking for the retirement of Belichick or even the leaving of Josh.

 

[LiveShot]

Maybe he just hired him to screw with everybody's head.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Interesting article that links Daboll to the Saban and BB tree.....

Rochester Review :: University of Rochester

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Interesting article that links Daboll to the Saban and BB tree.....

Rochester Review :: University of Rochester

"Daboll excels at reading defenses, clueing quarterbacks in on what to look for as they walk up to the center before the ball is snapped. It’s a crucial moment when the quarterback must determine if the play that’s been called by the coaches will work against the defensive formation on the field.
“The little keys he gives us to read the defense cut down on the things you have to do as you are walking up to the line, so you don’t have to worry about as much,” says Ratliff. “He can explain defenses—tell you how they play and why they play like they play.”

Further evidence that Daboll will be used in game prep for the offense

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Some here think NFL assistants appear out of nowhere. Daboll and McDaniels both served as defensive assistants on Saban's staff at MSU. Dean Pees was Saban's DC twice in college at Toledo and MSU. Coaching is a fraternity.