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The Secondary: Confirming Artrell Hawkins as a Starter

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Seymour93, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    When Eugene Wilson returns with full fitness, should he be thrown into the starting lineup at the expense of Hawkins? Frankly I don't think he should. The secondary looked shaky at best during the first three games in which Wilson was the starter.

    Both Hawkins and Chad Scott have stepped up since Week 3. Scott has done a good job shutting down the Bengals' and Dolphins' slot WR's. Washington for CIN had three catches, while Miami's Booker ended the day with just two. If I'm correct, nickelback Scott's man for both games were the slot WR's Washington and Booker. In the past Welker was the Miami #3, but yesterday it appeared Hobbs was on him all day long. Hobbs is our #2 CB so Welker apparently was promoted within the Dolphin offense.

    The free safety's job is to not allow the big plays. We saw against the Jets that those long passes made that game competitive late on when it shouldn't have been close. Denver and Javon Walker, well there's no need to go into that again. It's generally agreed league-wide that the Bengals have one of the deepest WR corps, and that they particularly excel at YAC. The Miami WR's aren't as renowned, however in both games there were hardly any missed tackles from the secondary, most of all there were no long TD's.

    What caused the sudden solidifying of the secondary? I don't know what did. Only the coaching staff and players do. But my best guess is the play of both Hawkins and Scott.

    Eugene Wilson has been a corner before. As long as Hawkins is playing well I wouldn't mind seeing Wilson line up as our #2 CB or nickelback, while being the first guy to come in for either Hawkins or Harrison. Hobbs and Wilson can battle for the starting #2 CB. Look at what Chad Scott is doing as the nickelback. Having him as the dime is a real plus. Poteat is a solid #5 CB. We're deep at secondary, especially at CB, if all stay healthy, which is no easy task.

    With Wilson moving to CB, the secondary would be looking like this...

    _________FS__________SS_________
    _______Hawkins_____Harrison______
    #1 CB_______________________#2 CB
    Asante____________________Wilson/Hobbs

    Wilson/Hobbs, Scott, and Poteat on the sidelines or on the field in other packages.
  2. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Put me in the Artrell Hawkins fan club.

    Wilson looked like a future Pro Bowler after his first year but has never really gotten close to that level again. Not sure how that happens. Maybe we all just overrated him?

    Hobbs likewise looked like a stud towards the end of the season last year, but has looked shaky as of late.

    The good news is, there's a lot of solid pieces they can move around and play with - we have some depth there.
  3. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Good stuff Seymour, thanks!

    I'm in a quandry with what to do with Wilson. I've never been in the "move Wilson to corner" crowd that formed last year or the year before, but at the same time, I don't want Hawkins on the bench. I just dunno.

    Regarding Hobbs, I was under the impression that he was playing a lot of nickel yesterday, with Samuel and Scott manning the RCB/LCB spots. I wouldn't swear to it, and I haven't watched the game again, yet. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong before I get a chance to. I was assuming it was a temporary "demotion" because the cast on his arm looked to really affect his balance, but not to the point that BB felt Poteat would be better against the slot.
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    My guess too - I thought the cast hindered him on a couple plays - anyone else agree? Most noticeably, I think he wouldn't have had to facemask that guy if he didn't have a cast on his arm. It changed the way he made plays/tackles.
  5. D-cleater

    D-cleater Rookie

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    Man, I wanted to start this thread but work basically only allows me to sneak on for quick replies :p

    Add me to the Hawkins bandwagon. We've just seen Wilson miss on too many big plays, especially this season and last. I'd just as soon give him the benefit of the doubt, that is, he's playing within the scheme, but you simply can't deny the execution looks better by Hawkins.
  6. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    No problem. Browsing through a few of the threads today motivated me to make a serious football topic like this.

    I'm in the same boat as you. Wilson has always had my full support, but like you say if it means keeping Hawkins on the sidelines then I think a change is necessary. Let's try to accommodate them both. Wilson is the most flexible of the two, so that's why he should be moved IMO. He's still going to be seeing a lot of PT, just at a different position.

    That makes sense. You're probably right because Hobbs wasn't 100%. Welker could've technically still have been the #3 WR, so Hobbs had him if he was the nickel.
  7. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    Uhh, throw away the whole plan, BB apparently had something else in mind. :)

    Poteat wasn't out there much against the Dolphins. I wonder what the problem was.
  8. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Emergence of Chad Scott pushing an injured Hobbs down to the nickel? Not sure.

    Anybody notice who was the dime back, or didn't we run the dime much? Grrr... I gotta rewatch that game. :)
  9. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    Well you bring up a couple of valid points. But you also don't mention that Marty Booker got injured yesterday.

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2449

    He didn't play in the second half so that's where Welker mysteriously was promoted.

    Let's go back to the Denver game. The second Walker touch down was cover two with asante low and sanders over the top. sanders took a terrible angle and missed him all together. So it's not fair to blame wilson especially since he was out becuase of cramping, the injury which he is probably out for now. and if i'm recalling right harrison was out of the game at times too.

    as for the jets game... cotchery made an awesome play.

    now i know wilson has taken some bad angles and did some bad tackling, but keep in mind the start of camp they ahd him playing some corner back too.

    as of right now i'm neither pro wilson or pro hawkins. i'd say let wilson get healthy and keep hawkins in their. we should be happy the pats have all this "depth". the coaches will make the decision when wilson is healthy. i say keep hawkins in their primarily and split time to keep everyone fresh.

    i hear ya...but you argument is a bit skewed
  10. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    i beleive welker and hobbs were lined up in the slot
  11. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wilson moving to corner is probably the reason Hank got cut. Only thing that makes sense IMO.
  12. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Agree... problem is, everytime I think something makes sense with this team, Belichick seems to disagree first, then prove me wrong next.

    The interesting hypothetical to me is.... would you bump a healthy Hobbs or Samuel down to nickel to start Wilson at CB, or is Wilson the nickel? ..and what then about Chad Scott? (Purely assuming that The Hawk is determined to be the #1 starting FS.) I just don't know, but I'm dying to see how it all works out. The only thing I'm sure of is that I don't want Hawkins wasting on the bench.
  13. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wilson starts once healthy. Harrison is regaining his lateral mobility each game, this allows him to be used differently from the Bills and Jets games, which means Wilson and/or Hawkins are used differently as Rodney gets better at covering TEs.
  14. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    I don't doubt you're right, I'm just not sure I like it. ;)
    There's no argument there at all. Nice to see Rodney showing up more and more.
  15. Handel

    Handel Rookie

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    Maybe they will test this change during the bye week.
  16. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    Do they re-sign Samuel? He might command good money on the FA market.

    I say they dump him. He won't be worth it to them.

    I think Wilson is good. Very physical. Very good at pass break-ups as a CB. Good at playing man.

    Then I see them draftin Leon Hall or another good CB or two. Maybe a safety who can be physical and cover. For some reason they struck out on 2 safeties, the diminutive Guss Scott (always injured) and Reid. Scott was a 3rd round pick, high for a safety. SAnders looks like strike 3.

    Maybe they should try the FA market.
  17. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Rookie

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    I blame otis smith for all this - he's the coach.


    just kidding!
  18. Ungeheuer

    Ungeheuer Rookie

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    I think that none of us know what the hell we're talking about. It's almost impossible for a fan watching TV to tell who's blowing assignments in a zone secondary. I mean, we can see that Hobbs gave up a couple of touchdowns over his head, and Wilson has missed a few tackles this year (so has rodney, by the way), but a lot of what we're looking at -- we just have no idea. I'll say one thing -- when Wilson was a rookie, early on, we saw a lot of quartebacks testing the Pats with deep seam passes (think Manning in Indy in the 4th and goal game). But we haven't seen too many of those this year. To me that suggests the Pats are playing a very conservative zone and that whoever was supposed to be back there has been back there.

    That said, I always liked Wilson better as a corner. He's big enough to play the big receivers and we just haven't had that enforcer-type at corner since Ty left. Hawkins and Scott both look good to me opposite Harrison.

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