The Safety Position

[mgteich]

IMHO, the biggest question markets going into the pre-season were the interior OL, front seven depth, TE2 and S2.
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Of course, the OL situation is worse than it was. The DL situation is about health and depth. The TE2 situation was solved.
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Many of said that the secondary would be fine with the additions and with anyone at S2. Generally, I believe that this is the case. The surprise for some is that CHUNG is our S2, and that special teamer WILSON is the #3. HARMON seems at the bottom of the safety and special teams depth charts. It seems that, for now, safeties are safeties and cornea are corners. Perhaps this will change after Game 4, perhaps not.

 

[Brady6]

IMHO, the biggest question markets going into the pre-season were the interior OL, front seven depth, TE2 and S2.
=========

Of course, the OL situation is worse than it was. The DL situation is about health and depth. The TE2 situation was solved.
==================

Many of said that the secondary would be fine with the additions and with anyone at S2. Generally, I believe that this is the case. The surprise for some is that CHUNG is our S2, and that special teamer WILSON is the #3. HARMON seems at the bottom of the safety and special teams depth charts. It seems that, for now, safeties are safeties and cornea are corners. Perhaps this will change after Game 4, perhaps not.

The way we develop are defensive backs between their rookie seasons and second season is best in class. Last year Wilson fell off the map, this season Harmon appears to be poised to do the same.

Seeing Harmon and Ryan both at the bottom in snaps is the most disappointing thing about this weeks game. How can we continue to accept this failure to develop are defensive backs properly.

 

[VrabelJr]

I wouldn't look into it too much. The snap totals for backup secondary players vary wildly from week to week. It was the same story last year and the year before that.

 

[mgteich]

I agree in general, but not with regard to Ryan. Ryan was a backup last year.

It is not a disappointment to me that he is not better than Revis, Dennard and Arrington (our slot back). Personally, I don't think that there was any reason for Davis to above any of them in the depth chart. And I suppose, Ryan will be a worse player if Browner has more reps than he does?

We have Butler and Ryan as our backups, at corner and at slot. Ryan is one of our top special teamers. Being a key special teamer is very useful to the team. Ditto for other backups Wilson and Ebner.

The way we develop are defensive backs between their rookie seasons and second season is best in class. Last year Wilson fell off the map, this season Harmon appears to be poised to do the same.

Seeing Harmon and Ryan both at the bottom in snaps is the most disappointing thing about this weeks game. How can we continue to accept this failure to develop are defensive backs properly.

 

[PatFanCraig]

The way we develop are defensive backs between their rookie seasons and second season is best in class. Last year Wilson fell off the map, this season Harmon appears to be poised to do the same.

Seeing Harmon and Ryan both at the bottom in snaps is the most disappointing thing about this weeks game. How can we continue to accept this failure to develop are defensive backs properly.

I like Harmons raw skills but if he can cover or tackle and becomes a flop and Ryan does not become a legit starting #2 cornerback then the trade that allowed the vikings to draft Patterson was a flop and another bad trade. The patriots favorite of their picks are Collins Dobson and Ryan. Harmon was the extra. That means they could have had Patterson, a game breaker in the making in Round One and Collins in Round 2 and Ryan in Round3. Or maybe even Patterson,Collins and Dobson in Round3 if he were still there. However I do like Ryan's upside as a top end #2 cornerback. That trade will depend on Dobson becoming a #1 WR and Ryan becoming a very good #2 cornerback. As well as Collins making the leap to pro bowl consideration.

 

[PatFanCraig]

I agree in general, but not with regard to Ryan. Ryan was a backup last year.

It is not a disappointment to me that he is not better than Revis, Dennard and Arrington (our slot back). Personally, I don't think that there was any reason for Davis to above any of them in the depth chart. And I suppose, Ryan will be a worse player if Browner has more reps than he does?

We have Butler and Ryan as our backups, at corner and at slot. Ryan is one of our top special teamers. Being a key special teamer is very useful to the team. Ditto for other backups Wilson and Ebner.

It should be a huge disappointment if Ryan does not develop into a legit #2 cornerback after a promising rookie season. It should be very disappointing that the team can't draft and coach up a legit starting #2 cornerback. And that all of the defensive backs drafted never become more than backups and special team players. I wouldn't call that success him contributing on special teams. The fact that Chung is starting at SS after letting him go once for sucking then dumped by the eagles for being terrible is a joke. A round2 and round 3 pick has been used on a SS recently and neither can beat out Chung is a disgrace to drafting.

 

[supafly]

It should be a huge disappointment if Ryan does not develop into a legit #2 cornerback after a promising rookie season. It should be very disappointing that the team can't draft and coach up a legit starting #2 cornerback. And that all of the defensive backs drafted never become more than backups and special team players. I wouldn't call that success him contributing on special teams. The fact that Chung is starting at SS after letting him go once for sucking then dumped by the eagles for being terrible is a joke. A round2 and round 3 pick has been used on a SS recently and neither can beat out Chung is a disgrace to drafting.

I agree with the bottom portion of your post, without meaning to question or downplay the overall success of Belichick's drafting methods. The recent failures in the secondary with the high 2nd/3rd round picks have certainly been disappointing, particularly as it pertains to the position of safety.

I do not agree with the statement that "it should be a huge disappointment if Ryan does not develop into a legit #2 cornerback after a promising rookie season." How in the world would he be a realistic CB2 with Darrelle Revis and Brandon Browner brought in the offseason, especially when he already have our CB2 with Alfonzo Dennard?

Logan Ryan may be in the mix for our CB2 spot (in normal circumstances when Browner returns in 3 games and no injuries) next year + the year after depending on other factors, but he has Revis, Browner, and Dennard all ahead of him at the moment. I think you're being a bit too harsh on the expectations for 2014.

 

[PatFanCraig]

Actually I like Ryan's upside. Ryan is 6' 203 lbs now. He had 5 ints as a rookie and really didn't play much til mid season. He has very good makeup speed and burst, athleticism and works extremely hard. He is also physical. Browner is the #2 but 30 yrs old and speed was already his weakness. I was rooting for Ryan to step up and compete for that #2 cornerback role. If Ryan won that job Browner would be an awesome SS. Great in coverage for a SS and an elite tackler. And the secondary would completely dominate if Ryan is good enough to beat out Browner and push him to SS.

 

[supafly]

Actually I like Ryan's upside. Ryan is 6' 203 lbs now. He had 5 ints as a rookie and really didn't play much til mid season. He has very good makeup speed and burst, athleticism and works extremely hard. He is also physical. Browner is the #2 but 30 yrs old and speed was already his weakness. I was rooting for Ryan to step up and compete for that #2 cornerback role. If Ryan won that job Browner would be an awesome SS. Great in coverage for a SS and an elite tackler. And the secondary would completely dominate if Ryan is good enough to beat out Browner and push him to SS.

Not meaning to disagree with everything you're saying tonight on purpose, but there really isn't anyone here who feels that Brandon Browner would be an effective safety. That was a quick and fleeting thought that came and went within a week or two of his arrival in the early spring.

Both Belichick and Pete Carroll (albeit in some different wording) stated that Browner would not be an effective safety due to his lack of speed and ability to lose coverage skills the further he gets away from the ball. This is actually exactly why he is much better fitted to play man coverage right on the line of scrimmage, where he can help to throw the opposition's WR off of his route instantly. He's actually not that hot in coverage after that.

Brandon Browner Projects At Cornerback, Not Safety, For Patriots | NESN.com

As far as Logan Ryan being the CB2, like I said, he had some very proven players in front of him with Revis, Browner, and Dennard. I think he can take over the role due to injury if/when needed, and that he'll be competing for that spot in the future, but at the moment he doesn't project there very well with the established players in front of him.

 

[PatFanCraig]

I just thought so because in all his highlights his plays looked like they came when he played off or even zone when he was away from the ball. I feel like no matter how well you press you still have to turn and run and if he has speed for that he can play as I would think. He looked very good in space in all his highlights I think, but just my opinion