The Real Goat? I think the o-line is getting too much blame

[MoLewisrocks]

How do you know Brady took over the play calling in the 4th Quarter?

Because that's always the case when it works...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Because they did some no huddle and you could see Brady looking at his wrist thing.

There is a reason the o-line looked so bad and it think it is more complicated than all of a sudden they started to suck after being the best in the league for 18 weeks.

Hate to burst your bubble, but when he looks at his wrist thing it's to refresh his memory on the play Josh just called...

They weren't the best in the league for 18 weeks, that was an illusion born of overwhelming talent surrounding them. The league caught up to them in week 18, and they came to the biggest game of the season and got exposed for what they are. Coaching lipstick on a pig. They can't ever stand alone, they always need help against speed rushers, they're a product of the system just as our secondary is only while the secondary failed to make plays on crucial first and last quarter drives the Oline failed to make them for most of the rest of the game.

The first drive only happened because the Giants needed a drive to get dialed in. Once they saw they could dominate, they went balls to the wall and took a calculated risk that as long as they could continue to sack, hit or harrass Brady consistently he would not have time to make enough of those plays that can kill you. It was really the only strategy they could hope to win with, and in the end they did. They kept us out of the red zone on all but 2 possessions, and only allowed us in it in 4th quarter after a stupid 12 man penalty they incurred because they were getting gassed.

We made adjustments and they didn't work. The Giants ran over them too.

 

[Rob0729]

How many SB rings does Josh have? How many does Charlie have? I rest my case...

Does that mean Chuck Knoll is a better coach than Belichick? He has more Super Bowl rings. Terry Bradshaw better than Brady?

Weis was a good, but inconsistent OC here. Many of the things people complain about McDaniels they complained about Weis. It wasn't McDaniels' fault the Pats had no answer for Dallas Clark last year in the AFC Championships last year.

Charlie Weis was a mediocre OC for years before he got Brady to make him good. He was incompetitent with Bledsoe running the offense. Parcells stripped him of his play calling ability.

McDaniels is in the third year calling plays and he has done a pretty good jon overall. The Pats offense this year was statistically the best ever. It is foolish to think he didn't play a key role in that. I think people need to give McDaniels a chance and stop the foolishness that when the offense does well it is despite him and when it fails it is because of him. You can't have it both ways. If the offense can flourish despite of him there should be nothing he can do to make the offense fall flat on its face either.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

You realize the too many men penalty happened on the first drive of the 2nd half right?

4-2 NYG44 (11:07) C.Hanson punts 31 yards to NYG 13, Center-L.Paxton. R.McQuarters ran ob at NYG 14 for 1 yard. New England challenged the too many players on field ruling, and the play was REVERSED. PENALTY on NYG, Defensive 12 On-field, 5 yards, enforced at NYG 44 - No Play.

 

[oldskool138]

Does that mean Chuck Knoll is a better coach than Belichick? He has more Super Bowl rings. Terry Bradshaw better than Brady?

Apparently, yes.

 

[upstater1]

Come on! Prior to 2004, people wanted to dump Weis as much as they wanted to dump McDaniels now. The Pats had a ton of three and outs in 2003. The Pats had 4 games that year where they didn't score a single TD. The Pats had a 37.0% third down percentage in 2003 and the Pats have never had under a 42.5% third down percentage under McDaniels and that includes last year with Caldwell as the lead WR.

I am sorry, but I think people have skewed their view of Weis and don't give McDaniels enough credit and far too much blame. Yes, he was a part of the problem on Sunday, but far from the biggest.

I was always a big Weis backer. I have to admit, I'm agnostic about McDaniels. Weis proved himself with the Jets, as he took a pathetic offense and made them good.

 

[nepatz11]

I seriously doubt McDaniels was steadfast about sticking to his first half gameplan. All year, McDaniels has made radical halftime adjustments when it was neccessary. He even gave up on the deep pass and ran the ball and did short screens against San Deigo in the second half of the AFC Championship game which people claim he never does. Now he was going to stick to a gameplan that wasn't working in this game.

I'm sorry, but the Pats tried short passes and screens with no avail until the fourth quarter. I counted at least a half dozen screens and they had about a dozen short slants to Welker. I think McDaniels did go to the short game although people think he didn't. The problem is that Brady didn't have the time to do even them.

OK they tried some screens and short passes but then inevitably they woul dget impatient and send brady for a 7 step drop or a deep pass and that would either be a drive killing sack or a wasted down setting them up into third and long.

 

[nepatz11]

We made some adjustments but then we wouldnt stick with them. When we most abandoned the deep pass is when we scored. end of story. the giants came at us recklessly and we played right into their hands for most of the game.

 

[Rob0729]

I was always a big Weis backer. I have to admit, I'm agnostic about McDaniels. Weis proved himself with the Jets, as he took a pathetic offense and made them good.

And Parcells took the reigns away from him and told him to stand in the corner and not get in his way during games. Parcells thought so highly of Weis' work with the Jets that he stripped him of playcalling abilities.

 

[Rob0729]

OK they tried some screens and short passes but then inevitably they woul dget impatient and send brady for a 7 step drop or a deep pass and that would either be a drive killing sack or a wasted down setting them up into third and long.

Brady rarely goes into seven step drops. Nothing worked because the o-line sucked. Strahan tipped a screen pass because he was into the backfield so quick that Brady couldn't get the ball off fast enough on a simple screen. Many of the deep passes had wide open receivers and Brady didn't get the throw to them too. Is it McDaniels' fault that Brady throws a pass that is off?

McDaniels made some really bad calls in the game, but he was clearly not the reason the Pats lost.

 

[upstater1]

And Parcells took the reigns away from him and told him to stand in the corner and not get in his way during games. Parcells thought so highly of Weis' work with the Jets that he stripped him of playcalling abilities.

Weis has rings on his fingers won in the new millenium.

Parcells doesn't.

 

[nickelbolt]

Our o-line did not have its best game I agree.

But one of the reasons our o-line looked so bad is because the giants came at us from every angle in a very aggresive way. When teams do that there are things offense can do to make them pay. Specifically, short passes, intermediate passes, screen passes, delay traps, wide reciever screens, and i think the no huddle offense can put an aggressive defense on it's heels.


We did none of those things until the fourth quarter when Brady took over the play calling.

Is it any coincidence that we finally scored then?

The real goat of this game was Josh McDaniels. He let the Giants play this game on their terms and he hung Brady and offensive line out to dry. Make those adjustments at the half or sooner and we win easily.

Blaming it on McDaniels? But I thought it was Belichick who had two weeks to prepare a gameplan that would be absolutely unstoppable? I realize he really coaches the defense, but this is the "genius"... the man who leaves no gaps... no weaknesses... sees all the angles and leaves no stone unturned. Certainly a perfectionist like Belichick would have looked at the stats at halftime and made all the proper adjustments.

Looking for a scapegoat? Belichick's arrogance would be a good place to start.

 

[Rob0729]

Weis has rings on his fingers won in the new millenium.

Parcells doesn't.

I don't hate Weis and think he is a good OC, but I think he is overrated by the fans. I remember 2000 where he refused to give up on the screen passes eventhough the 6-5 Bledsoe always threw the screen at at the 5-9 Troy Brown's ankles. I remember the 2003 season where we only converted 37% of our third downs and went 3 and out too far too much. I remember Weis abandoning the run too quickly on many occassions. I remember Weis' overreliance on certain plays like the FB draw (which worked maybe 5% of the time) and many trick plays.

My point is even as good as he was, he had a lot of flaws. Flaws that people seem to forget over time yet made many of us frustrated at the time. Many of these complaints are similiar complaints being levied at McDaniels now.

McDaniels is young and fairly inexperienced and sometimes he shows it. But overall I think he is a pretty good OC and will only get better. I just don't get all the hatred of the guy. Maybe it is his age. Maybe it is because it is because people are judging him vs. the legend of Weis rather than what Weis actually did.

 

[NEPatriot]

we knew Giants would use pass rush against us and we did not thing to STOP it.

we had 4 quarters to fix whatever problem we had. Why didn't we.?

 

[karran_s]

we knew Giants would use pass rush against us and we did not thing to STOP it.

we had 4 quarters to fix whatever problem we had. Why didn't we.?

Ultimately, it comes down to a fight in the trenches and we lost that battle... No amount of scheming on paper is going to help. The O Line could not match the intensity of the G Men as they rushed on TB

 

[NEPatriot]

Ultimately, it comes down to a fight in the trenches and we lost that battle... No amount of scheming on paper is going to help. The O Line could not match the intensity of the G Men as they rushed on TB

we matched them in game 16. We also matched Steeler, Jag, and Chargers and we defeated them all. They are physical teams. What's up with this time.?

 

[karran_s]

we matched them in game 16. We also matched Steeler, Jag, and Chargers and we defeated them all. They are physical teams. What's up with this time.?

I watched them in week 17 in the final historic 16-0 game at the Giants stadium... The G Men were good then but not like the way they played at the SB. At the SB, they were playing at another level and we lost that match up.. Sorry ... All you have to do is to watch the tape again and you'll see for yourself how we lost the battle.

Matt Light couldn't do squat... and neither could anyone else..

 

[TheSparks1]

But one of the reasons our o-line looked so bad is because the giants came at us from every angle in a very aggresive way. When teams do that there are things offense can do to make them pay. Specifically, short passes, intermediate passes, screen passes, delay traps, wide reciever screens, and i think the no huddle offense can put an aggressive defense on it's heels.

According to today's Patriots Ledger, the NY Giants blitzed (brought more than 4 pass rushers) on only 13 of the Patriots' 53 offensive snaps. Surprising that 4 pass rushers could outthink 5 OLmen + TE + RB, depending on the play.

 

[tombonneau]

Say what you want about Josh, but he had a $$$ call on the first play of the game with the fake reverse that was a WR or RB screen to Welker or Faulk or Maroney (don't recall who) where he had a phalanx of blockers and nothing but open field in front of him.

And Brady misfired, like he has all year at the start of games. That would be have been a minimum of 30 yards and set the tempo for the entire game.

It was a team loss.

 

[Rocky]

I was always a big Weis backer. I have to admit, I'm agnostic about McDaniels. Weis proved himself with the Jets, as he took a pathetic offense and made them good.

Weis has his bad moments, however, everytime something was not working, he seemed to know the answer. I've seen several mentions of the 2001 game against the Jets were they were down by 13 at the half, and NOTHING was working. He made adjustments in the 2nd half and they came back.

For the most part, if something wasn't working, he would make the necessary changes. McDaniels didn't really even use a draw play, let alone anything creative. At times, the Pats had nice success running out of the shotgun this year and I saw not much of it Sunday, unless I am mistaken.

So yes, McDaniels is a goat, but there were MANY goats in this game--the o-line, Hobbs, Samuel, Harrison, Green (I think it was him that should have brought Eli down on the miracle play..could be wrong), Belichick, etc. They lost as a team.