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The Real Goat? I think the o-line is getting too much blame

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by nepatz11, Feb 5, 2008.

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  1. nepatz11

    nepatz11 Rookie

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    Our o-line did not have its best game I agree.

    But one of the reasons our o-line looked so bad is because the giants came at us from every angle in a very aggresive way. When teams do that there are things offense can do to make them pay. Specifically, short passes, intermediate passes, screen passes, delay traps, wide reciever screens, and i think the no huddle offense can put an aggressive defense on it's heels.


    We did none of those things until the fourth quarter when Brady took over the play calling.

    Is it any coincidence that we finally scored then?

    The real goat of this game was Josh McDaniels. He let the Giants play this game on their terms and he hung Brady and offensive line out to dry. Make those adjustments at the half or sooner and we win easily.
  2. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    Brady should have gone to a 3-step drop in the 2nd quarter. It looked like they were trying to go deep every play.
  3. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Moss was consistently wide open deep, if he had any time at all, they would've connected. I'm guessing if Moss was that open, the underneath was probably covered.

    You can't blame Brady for this one, he still finished with decent numbers and put the team in position to win with 2+ minutes left. The reason they didn't score more was b/c the OL was a sieve and the OC didn't make adjustments in time.
  4. nepatz11

    nepatz11 Rookie

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    They would be moving the ball and then try to go deep every couple of plays and it would end in DISASTER almost every time. It resulted in wasted downs and negative yardage plays that paralyzed our offense.
  5. pheenix11

    pheenix11 Rookie

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    How do you know Brady took over the play calling in the 4th Quarter?
  6. Seels

    Seels Rookie

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    McDaniels deserves some blame, a lot actually, but the players still have to play the game. The Oline play was inexusable, the worst I've seen a Pats Oline play in a very long time.
  7. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

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    What about Dante Scarnecchia? Shouldn't he have gotten their heads screwed on straight in the locker room or when the D was on the field?
  8. QuinielaBox

    QuinielaBox Rookie

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    It was winning the Baltimore game. They should have lost it. Then they rest up in week 16 and give it heck in the playoffs.

    I think Belichick is the goat in SB XLII for passing on that 48 yard FG attampt. What was up with that? Also, he should have made provisions for a running game in the SB and slow done the NYG pass rush. It looked like he wanted to implement the Mike Martz show and assume that the O-line would take care of the Giants D-line. That certainly did not happen.

    Finally divine intervention and coaching from big brother Peyton (the defacto Giants O-coordinator for the week) set up the winning drive and made Eli a pseudo-legend.

    To tell you the truth, I was scared to death this was gonna happen.
  9. nepatz11

    nepatz11 Rookie

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    Because they did some no huddle and you could see Brady looking at his wrist thing.

    There is a reason the o-line looked so bad and it think it is more complicated than all of a sudden they started to suck after being the best in the league for 18 weeks.
  10. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    This is the core of the ball game right there.

    Of course, we went three and out twice on running plays in the 3rd quarter as well. More bad playcalling.

    On the fumble on the last possession, Brady held the ball for 5 seconds.

    3 points would have been useful right there.
  11. cblesz

    cblesz Rookie

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    The O-Line was horrendous but McDaniels deserves a ton of blame also. I kept yelling for wr screens, 3 step drops and rb screens. Too many times Brady was waiting for the deep pattern to open and I would sit there and cringe knowing the pressure was just about to get there.

    I also agree that we should have attempted the field goal. Dear God, 4th and 13 and you haven't been able to move the ball much? Lemme remind all of you about Matt freaking Light's two false start penalties also.

    Finally, they should have called a timeout after the ridiculous circus catch by Tyree on his helmet. Let the defense catch its breath and at least have the booth take a look at it, (I know it did not hit the ground) but a timeout and possible review may have slowed momentum.
  12. nepatz11

    nepatz11 Rookie

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    If you read the stats on what % of NFL drives end when there is a sack it is something astronomical like 80 or 90% or so. All it would take in a game like Sunday is one seven step drop the way the giants were coming and there was a good chance of a drive killing play.
  13. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rookie

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    I posted in another thread that apparently Brady wanted to adjust the drop timing and count at halftime - like they have done all year, but McDaniels was commited to this/his game plan.

    If true, the goat is absolutely McDaniels! Brady should have pulled the plug on his helmet radio and called his own plays. Maybe then something might have worked...I kid, I kid! ;)
  14. QuinielaBox

    QuinielaBox Rookie

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    I know you are talking about the last possestion of the 1st half. It was a big lost opportunity for New England since possestion numbers were critical in this game.

    With Charlie Wiess calling the game for Brady, there is no way we would have lost. Maybe he'll give up on ND and come back to coach NE.
  15. Rob0729

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    I seriously doubt McDaniels was steadfast about sticking to his first half gameplan. All year, McDaniels has made radical halftime adjustments when it was neccessary. He even gave up on the deep pass and ran the ball and did short screens against San Deigo in the second half of the AFC Championship game which people claim he never does. Now he was going to stick to a gameplan that wasn't working in this game.

    I'm sorry, but the Pats tried short passes and screens with no avail until the fourth quarter. I counted at least a half dozen screens and they had about a dozen short slants to Welker. I think McDaniels did go to the short game although people think he didn't. The problem is that Brady didn't have the time to do even them.
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Come on! Prior to 2004, people wanted to dump Weis as much as they wanted to dump McDaniels now. The Pats had a ton of three and outs in 2003. The Pats had 4 games that year where they didn't score a single TD. The Pats had a 37.0% third down percentage in 2003 and the Pats have never had under a 42.5% third down percentage under McDaniels and that includes last year with Caldwell as the lead WR.

    I am sorry, but I think people have skewed their view of Weis and don't give McDaniels enough credit and far too much blame. Yes, he was a part of the problem on Sunday, but far from the biggest.
  17. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

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    How many SB rings does Josh have? How many does Charlie have? I rest my case...
  18. MTaylorJ1

    MTaylorJ1 Rookie

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    I'm still curious as to why Spach was left off the active roster. He was so effective the week before in the 2 TE power rushing set. Might have been able to use that more to offset the pash rush, wear the Giants down had he been there.

    I don't think much of an effort was made to stick with the short passing/running game at all. It worked like a charm on the first and last drive, are we saying that it wasn't there the ENTIRE rest of the game? Because its what they used to get into Giants territory each time. The screens weren't working at all, and the wide runs as well. If you go back and look at the play by play, (this is with me having zero access to video), you can see that all of their drives bogged down when they were trying to throw deep, whether it be incomplete passes throwing deep, or sacks. Knowing how ineffective the OL was, and the fact that Brady was working through an injury (his deep throws had a ton of air under them), I think they should have just decoyed deep, and kept hitting the short passes, with the worst case being, the best decision making QB of all time throws an incompletion every now and again and you aren't left with 2nd and 3rd and huge distances.
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where do you people get this crap. You're delusional. When plays work Brady called them and when they fail McDaniels did...LOL We tried all those things and they didn't work because the Giants were in Brady's face even when they didn't put him on the ground and they had 7 defenders in man coverage who were dropping receivers on screens in the backfield or for no YAC. Ditto slants because they were determined to stuff YAC. Welker and Faulk were the only receivers who beat coverage with any consistency, and we lost Faulk for a time to a leg injury. But even then they had the means to double Welker as well as Moss because that is what a successful 4 man rush nets you.

    The Giants didn't come at us from every angle. They blitzed a third of the time and got sufficient pressure rushing 4 most of the rest of the time. Nothing exotic, just smashmouth football, and our Oline pee'd their pants.

    BTW we scored in the 4th quarter because the Giants D was gassed and players were cramping up. We were forced to punt on that drive until the Giants screw up with 12 men bailed us out. And on the Moss TD his defender freakin' fell down... Other than that we were screwed. That's the only coincidence.

    You folks are in such day 2 denial it's pathetic. Blame the OC all you want. Did the same to Charlie through 5 years and 3 championships. And now he can't even coordinate a college offense and you pine for him. LOL

    And while I put the blame squarely where it belongs and hate to dump on scapegoats, I gotta say Dante is getting a free pass in all of this. OLine coach and assistant HC - WFT was he as his players and blocking schemes shat the bed...
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2008
  20. FirstAndGoal

    FirstAndGoal Rookie

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    The bottom line is that the line was losing its matchups.
  21. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because that's always the case when it works...:rolleyes:
  22. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hate to burst your bubble, but when he looks at his wrist thing it's to refresh his memory on the play Josh just called...

    They weren't the best in the league for 18 weeks, that was an illusion born of overwhelming talent surrounding them. The league caught up to them in week 18, and they came to the biggest game of the season and got exposed for what they are. Coaching lipstick on a pig. They can't ever stand alone, they always need help against speed rushers, they're a product of the system just as our secondary is only while the secondary failed to make plays on crucial first and last quarter drives the Oline failed to make them for most of the rest of the game.

    The first drive only happened because the Giants needed a drive to get dialed in. Once they saw they could dominate, they went balls to the wall and took a calculated risk that as long as they could continue to sack, hit or harrass Brady consistently he would not have time to make enough of those plays that can kill you. It was really the only strategy they could hope to win with, and in the end they did. They kept us out of the red zone on all but 2 possessions, and only allowed us in it in 4th quarter after a stupid 12 man penalty they incurred because they were getting gassed.

    We made adjustments and they didn't work. The Giants ran over them too.
  23. Rob0729

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    Does that mean Chuck Knoll is a better coach than Belichick? He has more Super Bowl rings. Terry Bradshaw better than Brady?

    Weis was a good, but inconsistent OC here. Many of the things people complain about McDaniels they complained about Weis. It wasn't McDaniels' fault the Pats had no answer for Dallas Clark last year in the AFC Championships last year.

    Charlie Weis was a mediocre OC for years before he got Brady to make him good. He was incompetitent with Bledsoe running the offense. Parcells stripped him of his play calling ability.

    McDaniels is in the third year calling plays and he has done a pretty good jon overall. The Pats offense this year was statistically the best ever. It is foolish to think he didn't play a key role in that. I think people need to give McDaniels a chance and stop the foolishness that when the offense does well it is despite him and when it fails it is because of him. You can't have it both ways. If the offense can flourish despite of him there should be nothing he can do to make the offense fall flat on its face either.
  24. MTaylorJ1

    MTaylorJ1 Rookie

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    You realize the too many men penalty happened on the first drive of the 2nd half right?

    4-2 NYG44 (11:07) C.Hanson punts 31 yards to NYG 13, Center-L.Paxton. R.McQuarters ran ob at NYG 14 for 1 yard. New England challenged the too many players on field ruling, and the play was REVERSED. PENALTY on NYG, Defensive 12 On-field, 5 yards, enforced at NYG 44 - No Play.
  25. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

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    Apparently, yes.
  26. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I was always a big Weis backer. I have to admit, I'm agnostic about McDaniels. Weis proved himself with the Jets, as he took a pathetic offense and made them good.
  27. nepatz11

    nepatz11 Rookie

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    OK they tried some screens and short passes but then inevitably they woul dget impatient and send brady for a 7 step drop or a deep pass and that would either be a drive killing sack or a wasted down setting them up into third and long.
  28. nepatz11

    nepatz11 Rookie

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    We made some adjustments but then we wouldnt stick with them. When we most abandoned the deep pass is when we scored. end of story. the giants came at us recklessly and we played right into their hands for most of the game.
  29. Rob0729

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    And Parcells took the reigns away from him and told him to stand in the corner and not get in his way during games. Parcells thought so highly of Weis' work with the Jets that he stripped him of playcalling abilities.
  30. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady rarely goes into seven step drops. Nothing worked because the o-line sucked. Strahan tipped a screen pass because he was into the backfield so quick that Brady couldn't get the ball off fast enough on a simple screen. Many of the deep passes had wide open receivers and Brady didn't get the throw to them too. Is it McDaniels' fault that Brady throws a pass that is off?

    McDaniels made some really bad calls in the game, but he was clearly not the reason the Pats lost.
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